Do Her Feelings Ever Change, Or Is It Friend Zone For Life?

How to get out of friend zone even after being stuck for 10 years or more.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who has been stuck in friend zone for a decade with a former coworker. He’s been so afraid of getting rejected again after she turned him down years ago that he doesn’t have the courage to try even when she’s giving signs he should escalate physically. He just sits there like a statue stuck in the past. I tell him what to do. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

Hi, I’m Coach Corey Wayne and this is my Video Coaching Newsletter. And the topic of today’s Newsletter is going to be, “Do Her Feelings Ever Change, Or Is It Friend Zone For Life?”

Well, this particular guy, he’s been stuck in friend zone for about a decade or more with a woman that he used to work with. And back when he first started working with her, she had a boyfriend, but they hung out a lot. She’s always had lots of guy friends. And so at some point years later, when the two of them ended up being single at the same time, he tried to make a move. She kept him in the friend zone. And he’s basically been a statue ever since, too afraid to make a move.

And I don’t know how familiar he is with my work, but at the end of the day, a delay, as I often say, is not a denial when it comes to seduction, especially if you’re familiar with the two steps forward, one step back that I teach when you’re seducing a woman, and then you encounter resistance when to back off, how long to back off for, and then when to move forward. So moment by moment, you’re always responding to how a woman is actually showing up. And like this particular guy and anybody that’s new here, The Book is Free to Read at UnderstandingRelationships.com just subscribe to the email newsletter and it’ll open up right in your web browser.

Ideally it works best on a desktop. I would prefer for you guys that are students, obviously reading The Book, you should probably consume the Website and The Book on a desktop just because it’s a better experience than listening to the AudioBook when you’re working out or driving, or other things, because you need to be focused on the material so you can learn it, and you can go through the book 10 to 15 times to get to know it so well, you could teach a class on it.

The most effective way to do it would be to put the AudioBook on 2X and then follow along in a digital or physical copy. But if you haven’t read The Book, you’re still skeptical, then go read The Book in the Members Area and scroll through it. And once you start applying it and seeing that the stuff that’s described in The Book is showing up in your real life, then go and get an AudioBook. But you’ve got to learn the baseline fundamentals that are in The Book so you don’t end up like this guy basically acting like a statue and being stuck in friend zone, too afraid to make a move.

And so you often have probably heard me say that you got to see reality as it is not better than it is, which is what a lot of guys do. Or worse, than it is like this particular guy, he sees reality as worse than it is. In other words, he believes he’s stuck in friend zone for life because of things that happened years ago. But he ignores the fact that when they’re together, her knees bump and his she’s showing signs that she’s physically attracted and interested.

But yet, because of what happened several years ago when he tried making a move, she shot him down. So again, that’s what is really helpful if you actually read The Book and understand it, you’ll notice when the signs are there that she’s ready to be kissed, ready to be touched, ready to be seduced, even as she rejected you in the past. Because if she’s reaching out to you and staying in touch, she wants to hang out.

Obviously, on some level there is an attraction and an interest. And when you notice it, she’s ready to be touched, ready to be kissed, ready to be seduced as it’s laid out in The Book, that is when you make the move. That’s why the formula I teach is hang out, have fun, hook up. Hang out, meaning, create an opportunity for sex to happen, which is what a date is after all. You guys that are ultra religious, obviously the sex happens on your wedding night, but for most people in the West, women are going to sleep with you by the second or third date.

When you get really good, most of the time they’re going to sleep with you on the first date when your game is really super tight. But it’s your choice how you live your life. But at the end of the day, you got to take advantage of the signals and the signs when they’re there and make a move. And so the hangout is creating the date. The having fun while you’re hanging out is having a good time getting her to laugh. Keeping it positive, keeping it fun, keeping it light.

And then the hook up part is the end typically of the date. Usually you got to spend on average at least 4 or 5 hours with a woman before she feels safe and comfortable enough to hook up with you. So it’s a process. The hookup doesn’t come at the beginning. It typically comes at the end of the date. Unless she escalates things physically, then it can happen sooner. But again, that’s why the formula is there, because too many guys, most men, are focused on the hookup part right away.

And you got to understand, there’s a process to making a woman feel safe and comfortable to where she’s ready to hook up with you. So with that said, this is a really good email because it’s pretty detailed on what he’s been through over the last ten years, their interactions, what it was like when he had a real pretty girlfriend, and she got kind of aggressive about it, but he’s been carrying the torch for a decade. And so it would be nice to see this guy read The Book, apply it.

And then when the signs are there, when next time he’s hanging out with his girl, he should make a move instead of acting like a statue. Because at the end of the day, sex has got to be the man’s fault. You got to initiate it. And if the signs are there and you don’t initiate it, then she’s going to think you’re a bitch. That’s one of the reasons why a lot of guys get stuck in friend zone, is that the woman can tell if they’re interested, but they never make a move because they’re not courageous and brave enough.

And the number one male strength characteristic that women love in men is his confidence. And if you don’t have the confidence to go for the kiss or make a move, even if you’ve been rejected in the past, or even if she told you to slow down, again, you don’t take a delay as an outright permanent denial. It’s just that maybe she wasn’t ready, so you got to slow it down a little bit. Slow your roll, talk some more, hang out, make her laugh some more.

And then when the signs are there, you make a move again, that’s detailed in The Book. And so you guys are going to have to spend your time learning the material. There’s no way around it. There’s no shortcuts to success. There’s so many little subtle nuances when you’re interacting with a woman in order to get what you want. If you don’t understand them and you fuck up, you’re going to turn her off. You’re going to get blue balls and stay stuck in friend zone like this guy for a decade.

Viewer Email:

Hey Corey,

I fell in love with my coworker almost a decade ago. 

In other words, you fell in love with the idea or the fantasy of who you thought she was a decade ago.

She had a boyfriend when we first met, and we worked in the same department so initially I never viewed her that way. After about a year of working together we got closer and closer. Stuff like her throwing gem clips at me to get my attention and run to her desk, us speaking Spanish via chat all day. Everybody in our department could figure out we had “something” between us that was different versus the rest. 

So obviously she liked you. You made her laugh, but she had a boyfriend. And also the fact that she’s playing with you and being flirtatious this way when she has a boyfriend is not a good sign when you’re in the process of vetting a girl, potentially for a long term relationship or commitment, or especially you guys that are crazy enough to involve the state in your relationship and get married. But you do, you boo boo.

Long story short I finally admitted to myself that I wanted her in that way the very first time I hung out with her in a group for her birthday that she invited me to. It was a group of about 5 chicks and one dude that she was with. 

So I assumed that was the boyfriend.

I initially was sat at the end near her friends and after a few minutes she told me to come sit next to her. She literally didn’t even talk to the guy the entire time, and talked and flirted with me. 

At the end of the day, she went home with that dude and slept with him, and he probably had no idea that she was flirting with you. And so she kind of had a Frankenstein boyfriend project. She seemed to have fun with you and liked the attention, but at the end of the day, she was with him.

End of the night she left in the car with him, I assumed she was about to go get smashed by him and it pissed me off.

Well, women vote with their feet if they’re with you, they voted for you. And in this case, she voted for the boyfriend. But you shouldn’t get frustrated or upset. You should just look at it and go, well, a woman that’s kind of behaving that way, that’s inviting attention from other men in front of her boyfriend. She’s either doing it to troll him, or she doesn’t respect him, or she just doesn’t value loyalty, monogamy, exclusivity. She just doesn’t care.

I asked myself why the hell did I care anyways, and suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks and I realized I liked her.

He knew sooner, but maybe he just didn’t want to admit it to himself. The other thing is, you shouldn’t get hung up on a girl that has a boyfriend. But again, he’s carried away on his emotions and his feelings. He obviously wasn’t familiar with my Book. I’m not sure if he still has read it at this point or not. And so that’s going to definitely be part of the problem.

From there we hung out all the time. Skydiving, dinner dates, food trucks every week, me helping her with her moves etc. She never gave off any vibes of it being anything more than friendly. 

Well, if she’s doing all the calling, texting and pursuing, asking you to hang out, asking her to help her do things and you hadn’t read my Book at that point. She was probably giving off signs that she was attracted. And you completely missed him because again, as I said earlier, you saw reality as worse than it actually was. You convinced yourself she couldn’t possibly be interested in you, so you just assumed that was a permanent, perpetual state of being with her.

She was shady to say the least and has a million different guy friends. 

Again, from what it shows here, fuck buddy, friends with benefits, sex playmate, that kind of thing. Those are not the kind of actions or characteristics that you want in a girlfriend. Because if you date somebody like this, you’re just going to have a real hard time trusting her, especially with all these dudes she’s constantly inviting attention from. Again, there are girls for hooking up and having fun, and then there are girls for family and long term relationships. And from what I’ve seen so far, it looks like she’s just kind of the hook up girl, but he’s kind of pedestalize her projected his fantasy. He’s got a little bit of oneitis going on.

One day on our day off she had asked me to come help her with her move to her new condo and I didn’t reply so she shamed me and I came over to help. While there I saw her on her phone texting and as soon as she saw me looking she sent it to black. 

So it’s like she knew you liked her. She liked to dangle the carrot, but at the end of the day, you were too afraid to make a move.

I wondered what the hell is that about. I checked her phone when she wasn’t looking and she had a date with another “friend” or whatever for that night. I asked her what she was doing later when I was leaving and she told me she was going to church with her aunt. What a lying user.

Well, you were a sucker. You open yourself up to it. Again, I can relate. I did stupid shit like this when I was younger as well. It’s like you’re waiting for the girl to just say, “Hey, we should date. Hey, you should fuck me.” Occasionally some women are like that. Some women will come right out and say, “Hey, aren’t you going to kiss me?” But in this case, she’s going to go sleep with Chad Thunder Cock, who actually makes the move. And she knows you’re too much of a nice guy, and that’s why she keeps you in friend zone. So you can do favors for her. You’re part of her Frankenstein Boyfriend project, so congratulations on that.

Anyways this all went on for something like two years until the day she forced me to confess my feelings in her car.

Oh, she forced you? Yeah. She’s like, “do you have a crush on me? Do you like me?” And it’s like, “well, why don’t you kiss me and find out?” And she says, “no, tell me.” It was like, “kiss me first.” She’s like, “no, you got to tell me. Be serious.” It’s like, “kiss me first.” “Do you have a crush on me or are you in love with me?” “I don’t know what you’re talking about. But if you kiss me, that’ll answer all your questions.”

Got to be willing to stand up for yourself and what you want and be playful. You got to understand how the dance works. But you probably like a dopey, lovestruck little boy that you were just like, “yes, I really love you, Your Highness. I’ve been carrying the torch for lots of years. I really, really love you. You’re super special to me.” I don’t know what he said. Probably something along those lines or that vibe. And she was probably like, “Ew, I’m not going to sleep with him.”

She did this because I was obviously getting really pissed off at getting nowhere while she using me in my mind. 

Well, you were enabling the behavior, dude.

She said no and that she didn’t date co-workers and had told me that. 

But she sure liked you doing favors for her. She knew you liked her. She just wanted you to admit it. Because quite frankly, you’re a pushover. You’re too soft. And she could push you around. And that’s why she didn’t get really aggressive with you.

Funny enough after I left that place a year after this I started dating a new co-worker and she did too. So I guess it wasn’t so much the co-worker thing for her as it was just me doing something wrong. 

Well, you’re doing lots of things wrong.

I told her no thanks to friendship.

And the other thing is, you shouldn’t have been hanging out with her as buddies and pals when she had a boyfriend. That is another way you cement yourself in friend zone. Because men who love and value themselves and have and have choices and options. They’re not going to hang out with some other dude’s chick. They’re just not. They’re not going to do those things. They’re going to go hang out with a girl that’s single and ready to mingle.

I told her no thanks to friendship and if she changed her mind to give me a call. Well let’s just say that really pissed her off and hurt her but I didn’t care. Her interest seemed to spike once she saw how pretty this girl was that I was dating and she always disliked everything about her. Both of our relationships ended, and at some point with drama. Anyways I accepted that I’d rather have her in my life than not.

In other words, he caved to being her friend because he was too afraid to lose her.

And now it’s not so weird worrying about her being a co-worker anymore. Maybe about once or twice a year I will hang out with her. I can never tell if anything has changed but she tortured me in the past with flirting only to say no, and stuff like us chatting in my car and holding hands as we talk never give me any signs in my mind. 

Well, if she’s holding your hand, it’s like she’s touching you like that, pull her in and kiss her.

Just recently I met a Paisa Colombiana at a restaurant as a server. 

I don’t know what that means. I’m sure some of you in the comments can enlighten me. Or maybe when Pocahontas gets in, she can translate.

I wouldn’t shut up about her so my friend told me this was the first girl in years he had seen me take interest in and wrote my number down on the check and she reached out and we flirted a bit until she started asking for money. 

Yeah, with your friend, given the number. Because this is just more of you not being courageous and brave, you being a coward basically. Women like confidence and your buddy could tell, he sounds like a good friend, could tell that you liked this girl, but you didn’t have the balls to do anything about it. And so he leaves her the number, which she got in touch. But probably after she started talking to you, you behaved the same way you did with the first girl.

And so she thought you were a sucker to take advantage of. And that’s why she started asking you for money instead of just giving up the pussy and then getting the money from somebody else. You’re too nice, dude. Too much of a nice guy. You gotta read The Book and you got to apply it. If you hesitate, you will masturbate.

She also snapped hated this girl before I ever told her about money.

Something about that made me just want to go back to college studies and learn about Colombia. The girl I’m friend zoned with is Colombian, so I asked her to go eat Colombian food with me. As soon as she showed up I grabbed her and hugged her. It was loud and all, so maybe her sitting right next to me meant nothing as it never did in the past. She had on perfume, looked incredible, and we had fun. 

She showed up and gave you the opportunity to do something. Doesn’t sound like you made a move.

She was pressed up against me knee to knee the entire night.

Okay bro, time the fuck out. So if you’re sitting next to a girl and her knee is touching yours the whole time, that is her invitation that, “Hey, touching is okay.” So you need to escalate from there. If you’re doing that, say she’s to my right and her left knee is bumping your right knee, you’re going to take your right hand and put it on the inside of her thigh by her knee.

And you’re going to look over at her, and while you’re looking at her and smiling, maybe she’s talking, you’re talking or whatever. But you’re going to slowly look down at her lips and then into her eyes, back down at her lips and then into her eyes. And if she looks at your lips while you’re doing that at any point, just lean in and kiss her. Simple as that. She’ll kiss you back. She looks at your lips. That’s what you do.

It’s so obvious. If she’s touching you, that’s part of the problem. There were so many times in the past where you hung out and she did these things, and you didn’t make a move, and she was probably like, this guy doesn’t get it. What the fuck? Make a move. Make a move. Sex has got to be your fault. You’re the one with the penis. It’s your job to lead.

The word lead means to go first. She even touched you first. But she’s the woman. She submits to you. She’s letting you know physically, the touching is okay and welcome. And you didn’t do anything. You just went. I must touch you. I’m a robot. I can’t touch her. I don’t I don’t know what to do. Oh, help! This is why you read The Book.

She was pressed up against me knee to knee the entire night, anytime talking staring deep into my eyes and smiling, touchy feely and laughing at all things I said. 

God, it’s so obvious.

With any other chick on the planet, I would assume this is the sign to make a move, but with this girl I assume it means nothing as she always did the same before. 

Well, again, you’re in the present moment. “The past does not equal the future.” As Tony Robbins said, or maybe it was Jim Rohn before him. I don’t know who said it originally, but it’s true. So you’re seeing reality as worse than it is, even though she’s giving you all these signs that she wants to be touched and seduced. You’re worried about the times in the past when you got rejected.

At the end of the day, you’re both available. She’s touching you, and this is why she disappears for long periods of time. Because she’s like, I know this pussy for ten years, and he still won’t make a move. Just because she rejected you five years or seven years ago. If she’s touching you like that. It’s like, fucking hello, McFly, pull your head out of your butt, dude.

I have the mindset that she told me no years ago, and if she wants to fix this and date me.

You’re the one with the penis. You penetrate her. I don’t know, maybe you should buy her a strap on and then she can fucking penetrate you. Maybe you would prefer that.

Then she can make the move because I’m not going down this torture ever again.

So how did it feel to sit there all night with her, bumping you and touching you and giving you all the signs and you’re like, “she’s got to make the first move.” That’s just fucking stupid.

So Corey what the hell do I do? 

You should have kissed her, bro. It was so obvious she wanted you.

I already made a move and got told no years ago. 

Well, that was years ago. A delay is not a denial. This girl is still in your life, they say, and I’ve kind of found this to be true, if somebody’s been in your life for seven years, they’re typically always going to be in your life. If they make it a full seven years, they’re probably always going to be in your life and always stay in contact.

Maybe feelings change, but I view it as I’m just one of a million guy friends she has and that she views me with some sort of brotherly love. 

Bro, I want you to take your right hand. I want you to reach out and then choke yourself. Come on dude. It’s so obvious. It’s like you’re waiting for her to be the man. That’s the fucking problem. It’s so obvious. You’re living in the past. You’re stuck in the past. You see reality as worse than it is. Even though you notice she’s giving you all these signs. And with any other woman, you would have made a move. “Oh, I got rejected five years ago, so it’s never going to happen.” It’s like, come on, dude.

I only hang out with her one on one and only go out at night events that I would do with a girl I want to date.  Why would any girl do that with a guy they weren’t interested in?

Bob

Well, she was clearly interested, but you were too much of a pussy to make a move. Simple as that. You got to live in the present moment. What happened years ago doesn’t matter. This girl stays in touch. You hang out on a date in the evening like that. She looks hot. She smells good. She’s touching you the whole night, leaning against you. She’s inside, dying for you to fucking touch her. But you’re like, “No, she’s gotta make the move first. Cause she rejected me years ago. And I’m a robot. It does not compute. Why is she touching me? I’m getting a boner at the table. Oh, God. What if she sees my boner? Oh, no. I can’t make a move.”

It’s so obvious. Come on dude. Come on, man. I wish I had the mug here. I’m sure everybody now got the end of the email is just like. Bro. Dude, this is like T-ball. The ball is right there. T-ball was so easy when we were little kids. Put the little ball on the. They used to use like a radiator hose for the top. And I just remember the sound of the metal bat hitting that ball, right as you hit it perfectly and it sails into the outfield, when you were a little kid, it was like, that felt great. I mean, this girl basically offered herself on a silver platter and you went, “Oh, I got rejected years ago. I can’t do anything. Oh, what do I do? What do I do, Coach?” It’s so obvious.

God, it doesn’t get any easier than that. This is what women do. But it’s your job to escalate things. Because then after you’ve had sex, you can go, “It just happened. I couldn’t say no. He just took me and he had his way with me.” So if you’re in an obvious situation like this, whether it’s the email or anybody watching this, it’s like when a woman’s being that obvious, it’s like, hello. And she’s smiling at you and laughing at everything you say that’s so funny. But not really that funny, it’s just sad. It’s just sad. You gotta make a move, dude. It doesn’t get any more obvious than that.

Women aren’t going to come out and say it, some of them occasionally when they get really frustrated are like, “aren’t you going to kiss me?” But it didn’t happen in this case. This is why, again, everything’s laid out in The Book. The signs are there. It’s so easy. It’s like T-ball. It’s like all you had to do was swing. Just swing at the fucking pitch that’s sitting on the T. She set it all up for you, and you still didn’t swing at it. You miss 100% of the pitches that you don’t swing at, and that’s on you, Bubba. Make a move next time. So obvious. Duh.

So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen on any page, and book a coaching session with yours truly. Until next time, I will talk to you soon.