Fear Of Ghosting Causes Actions That Lead To Ghosting

Why fear of ghosting can cause you to take actions that lead to ghosting.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer in the UK who started seeing a woman before the Christmas holidays. He did well on their first two dates, but his texting got a little sloppy and needy and now she’s busy all the time. He told her to get in touch when her schedule freed up, but wasn’t congruent with that.

After a few weeks went by he reached out again only to hear that she was still busy. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

Hi, I’m Coach Corey Wayne, and this is my Video Coaching Newsletter. And the topic of today’s Members Only Newsletter is, “Fear Of Ghosting Causes Actions That Lead To Ghosting.”

So this particular email is from a viewer in the UK. And he started dating a woman that he met on Facebook. Excuse me, Facebook dating. Right before the Christmas holidays, he went on two first dates. He just went to one place and then that was it. He didn’t go to three places like the book suggests, so maybe he’s a cherry picker. But as you’ll see, it looked like the first two dates went well. She even called him after the first date and suggested getting together for a second. And then he started. He called her on Christmas Day or texted her on Christmas Day asking her to meet for coffee. I don’t know why he would go to do coffee. The whole purpose of a date is to create an opportunity for sex to happen. And you’re asking a girl on Christmas Day that you’ve been on two dates with. That just communicates you’ve got nothing else going on, and you’ve basically chosen her, and you want to get serious with her. So you could tell he just got really sloppy. And when he texted her, she said she was really busy. He said, “let me know when your schedule frees up.” A couple weeks go by, he doesn’t hear anything, starts freaking out again, reaches out, doesn’t wait for her to get in touch. And she said, you know, she’s happy that he got in touch. She apologizes, but she’s still just too busy with her horse and other things. And so he says the same thing again. “Hey, when your schedule frees up, hit me up.” So at the end of the day, I say this a lot, is that you’ve got to give women the time and space away from you to follow through on their plans and commitments. And like in this case, she’s busy. She’d like to see him. She says really nice things, but he’s impatient and doesn’t wait for her to get back to him. And that’s part of the problem, is that he started calling and texting too much. Again, you’ve been on two dates and then you’re calling a girl on Christmas. You just look like you’re a lonely little sap. Like you need some attention. And that’s just a bad way to go. So it’s just his game is not completely congruent with what’s in the book. It’s just kind of sloppy. And so that looks like her interest has gone down. That’s why the book suggests just make one day a week where you call or you text, or you reach out and you make one date. Once she starts reaching out to you, then you can make a date. As soon as she reaches out, she calls you today. “Hey, when are you free?” She says, “I’m free tomorrow night.” You make a date, then you get off the phone. But where he went wrong is he started because the holidays were there. It’s cuffing season again. He’s probably feeling a little lonely. He’s thinking, “Hey, this girl really likes me” because she reached out to him and he just kind of blew it. He just came on a little too strong. Remember, it’s a scientific fact that women are more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. And he’s only had two dates. The girls interest was high, and then he just starts losing it, basically. Because the only reason he reached out after he hadn’t heard from her is because he’s afraid she’s never going to reach out. Which at the end of the day, that’s fine. If she’s never going to reach out, if she’s not going to follow through on what she says she’s going to do, then it’s clear she’s not interested. So you should be okay with that. You should be okay with the women that you like and want to date not being interested in you, because quite frankly, most of the time that’s the way it’s going to be. Most of us aren’t as handsome as Brad Pitt.

Viewer Email:

Hi Corey,

My name is Bob from the UK and I’ve read your book multiple times and your work has really helped me over the past 18 months. 

Well, multiple times. That tells me probably once or twice. And that would make sense why he’s just kind of sloppy here. But that’s why people send these emails in so I can break their balls and critique their game and tell them what they need to do differently. Because my job as a coach is to help you stack the deck of cards in your favor, to give you most of the leverage, because the more things you do right, the better the chances are that you’re going to get what you want and cut out the things that you do wrong to keep from sabotaging yourself like this guy did. So this is what happens. You only read the book a couple of times probably. Maybe you read it once and then thumbed through it, or went through some other parts, but just the way he behaved here and what he’s doing doesn’t look like he really learned the book. And again, you go through it once, you’re going to retain maybe 7 or 8% of it. So when a 250 page book, 15 pages, maybe 20 pages, 18 pages. It’s just not enough to really master the material. You need to read it so many times that you could teach a class on it. And typically, the best way to do that is to be in a room in your house, wherever, not be in your car, not be working out. Just listen to the audiobook. Put the audiobook on 2X speed and then follow along with a digital or physical copy, and you can get through it in four hours. And that forces your brain to totally concentrate in the material. And you’ll retain a lot more versus, you know, mowing your lawn and listening to it or playing it through your Sonos speakers in the house. Or driving in your car and listen to it as background noise while you’re intermittently flipping people off that are driving slow in the left lane or whatever it happens to be.

I just want your thoughts on a woman I went on two dates with over the festive season. I met this woman on Facebook dating and after exchanging a few messages on the app, we exchanged numbers and arranged to meet for a drink.

So, as the book says, remember, women in the West typically are going to sleep with a guy by the second or third date. And so ideally you go to three different places in one night, because each time you go from one place to another, it’s like another date, another experience. Because what do most guys do? They do what this guy did. They meet for a drink, they have for a little bit and they’re like, okay, see you later. They go to dinner, they hang out. Kiss her goodbye, and then dinner is over. You should be starting out in a place like a wine bar is great if you’re going to do that. And if that goes well and you really like her and you like talking to her, then you say, “Hey, why don’t we go down the street? There’s a great place to get a steak or whatever. Italian, Sushi.” Whatever happens to be. And then you go and have a nice dinner. And then the third place, you should go somewhere where you can shoot pool, throw some darts, or maybe like a Top Golf. So you go to a wine bar first, especially if you’re meeting a girl online. You want to, you know, you want to invest too much money. You know you have a glass of wine or two, and if she sucks, then you can dip. But if it goes well, then you can say, “Hey, let’s go to Top Golf.” And then you can go to Top Golf. And obviously you don’t want it to be an hour away. You want it to be like within 10 to 15 minutes. So you go to Top Golf. You can eat there. You can play golf. It creates a physical interaction, especially if you’re showing her how to hold a golf club. Helps you break the touch barrier where it just seems like a natural thing because you’re helping her out. Not that you’re perfect. Same thing with shooting pool. She doesn’t know how to hold a pool cue. You can show her how to do that. Gives you a reason for the touch pair. Same thing with throwing darts or bowling for that matter. Or miniature golf. Or playing video games. You want to do something that enables the two of you to interact physically, so the touch barrier can easily be broken. And then you can kiss her and start making out. Usually takes 4 to 5 hours on a first date with a girl where if she’s open to it, she’ll be ready to go back to your place and hook up. Because if you just go one place and then you go home, it’s going to probably take you three, four, maybe five dates to get to the promised land. So in other words, you’re just trying to make it as easy and effortless and get what you want as quickly as possible.

The woman I met was a stunning, petite blonde who is 53, I’m 49, and was an 8 out of 10 in terms of looks. We had a great date. We had lots in common, we both have similar views, we are both quite spiritual and there was high chemistry and attraction on the date. Her body language was very positive towards me and I could tell there was a fairly high level of attraction from her side. At the end of the date, I walked her to her car we had a little kiss and agreed to see each other again. 36 hours after our date, she actually messaged me asking when I was free to meet up again which shows high interest, so I suggested we meet for dinner.

So far, I mean, she’s really into him.

So I suggested a restaurant, booked a table and time, 3 days after our first date, and no messages were sent between our first or second date. On our second date we had a nice time, she did most of the talking and there was good conversation. After our date, I walked her to her car and we had a little kiss and agreed to meet again.

I’d been taking her to going to three different places, but you do, you boo boo. My job is just to help you stack the deck in your favor.

When I got home, I pinged her a brief message to say I had a nice time and said I’d be in touch soon. Maybe this was a mistake on reflection.

Yeah, you don’t do that. Because it’s a scientific fact women are more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. And this is a holiday season right before Christmas. You had two dates in three days. And on top of that, now you’re messaging her, saying you’re going to ask her out on another date. So you took away any kind of mystery that might have been there, because if 3 or 4 days go by, I can’t remember what date, I think Christmas was like a Thursday this this year, maybe it was Wednesday. But say you went out on like a Monday and Christmas is a couple days later. Because it’s a holiday I’d be getting in touch the following week. Again, the book says one date per week. Now, the reason why it was okay for him to go on that second date in that week is because she reached out to him, and it was her idea. But at the end of the day, as the book says, one date per week. So the fact that he basically is texting her on the same day of his second date, suggesting that he wants to see her again already. That’s not what the book says. The book says, don’t do that. But he did it anyways. And this is what happens when you only read the book once or twice. You miss the subtle nuances. The reasons why you do the things that are outlined in the book. Women need time and space away from you to wonder about you, to think about you, and to miss you. Because we’re trying to create the conditions where she starts pursuing you. But when you’re texting her after you just had your second date, and you’re already telling her that you’re looking forward to the third date and you’ll be in touch soon, there’s no mystery. Women like a guy that’s a challenge. And that’s not being a challenge. You come off as a little needy and a little clingy. Because again, you only had two dates.

I didn’t message her for four days and she didn’t message in this time and by this point, we were nearing the festive season.

So you can tell he’s a little needy, a little desperate. Too much too soon. And so remember last time she messaged him within 36 hours of their last date. That’s a day and a half, basically. And now four whole days went by. I didn’t hear anything. So her interest, instead of going like this, went like this. It went down. Because all we got to do is look at her actions. He’s not following the book.

I didn’t message her for four days and she didn’t message in this time and by this point, we were nearing the festive season. I sent her a message asking if she wanted to meet up for a coffee as it was Christmas.

It’s like, again dude, it’s just kind of needy. It’s Christmas. You’ve had two dates. It’s been four days. She hasn’t reached out at all. You’ve got to assume she’s busy with family. And it’s much better if you’re being a little bit more mysterious. Remember, it’s a scientific fact that women are more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. It’s just the way they are. And you’re basically ruining all of her fun. You’re not giving her any time away from you to wonder about you, to think about you and miss you because you’ve been so crystal clear. You’re basically coming off like you want a relationship. When you go out on two dates with a girl, then you’re asking her to meet on Christmas Day. It’s like, come on, dude, you’re not paying attention. You’re only focused on your interest in her, and you’re ignoring the fact that after your first date, she reached out 36 hours later, and after your second date when you pinged her that night, four whole days go by and you haven’t heard from her. So this is, you’re coming off as a little needy, a little clingy. It’s too much too soon.

And she replied “she’d love to, but she was busy. Another time”. 

I mean, that is so predictably obvious that you’re going to get that. It had been different if they’d been dating for a couple of months or a month and they were already hooking up, but it’s just too much too soon. You’re too overeager. This is exactly what the book warns you not to do, and you’re doing it anyways. And I assume it’s just because you only went through the book once or twice.

I responded saying, “I’m free a few evenings and I was free the Sunday evening after Christmas”. She responded by saying she’d let me know re meeting up on Sunday.

So again, you can tell she’s like, “Yeah, another time.” And he’s like, “Well, how about next week? How about Sunday?” Too needy, too desperate. You’re thirsty. Women don’t like, because guys that behave like this, are the guys that can’t get a date and can’t get laid. And if she’s on Facebook dating, there’s a shit ton of those dudes.

She responded by saying she’d let me know re meeting up on Sunday.

Okay, so that’s the part where you’ve got to give her the time and space to follow through on our plans and commitments, which is she’s going to get in touch or to not. She said she’s going to get in touch and so you have to be okay with that. But since you’re full of fear, you won’t wait for her. And that usually are the actions of a guy that’s used to getting rejected. So no matter what a woman tells him, he always doubts that it’s going to happen. And so, in essence, he’s already chasing this girl out of his life after two good dates.

I thought from her initial response she wasn’t interested as her reply for a little blase and she didn’t offer another day to meet. But maybe I read this wrong.

Yeah, her interest was low because it’s too much too soon. You went wrong when you texted her that night after your date suggesting the third date. And then you ignored the fact that four days went by. You didn’t hear a peep out of her, and then you reached out on Christmas wanting to meet for coffee. It’s like coffee. Come on. What are you thinking? Create an opportunity for sex to happen. Not trying to be the gay male girlfriend. That’s just what a nice guy would do.

Anyway a week or so went by and Sunday came and went and I got a voice message from her on the Monday basically saying “I’m sorry about Sunday and sorry if I’ve been flaky but I’ve been really busy and my mum and dad have been really unwell plus early starts with my horse I’ve just had no free time. I’d love to see you, but I just don’t have much time at the moment”. I understand if you don’t want to continue trying to date. Let me know your thoughts.”

I mean, that’s pretty simple. It’s like she’s got ill parents, so anybody that’s been through that knows it’s a lot of work. And so you need to back the fuck off when a girl tells you that. I mean, she even reached out to you to let you know what was going on. That shows high interest. But in his mind, you can tell he’s like, I’m a loser. Nobody wants me. I’m going to have to try to force myself into her life. And so all he’s really doing now at this point is starting to chase her out of it.

I replied by saying, “I understand. It would be nice to see you again. Just reach out to me when you have a spare evening. Speak soon”. She responded by thanking me for understanding and that she’d be in touch. 

So you have to give her the space to get in touch or to disappear forever. Because quite frankly, she’s got a lot of shit going on in her life. She’s got a horse, she’s got ill parents who she’s probably taking care of, as she says. And, you know, she’s got to earn a living. She’s got to work. So you’re kind of pressuring her and she’s basically saying, hey, just back off, dude. I mean, you’re fucking 53 years old.

I kind of suspected that she might of been trying to blow me off.

So that gives you his mindset. He presupposes she’s going to blow him off, and that’s why he won’t wait for her to reach out. And that’s a problem because women love confidence. And what you’re doing is showing you have zero confidence, and you’re used to getting blown off and jerked around by women. And this girl started out with real high interest, but you’re basically texting her out of liking you because you’re coming off as needy and clingy and desperate.

And let me down gently so I decided to let her contact me or just flake out completely.

Exactly. You should have done that the first time, though. I would have never texted her at the end of the second date or the evening of the second date, suggesting a third when you’d been out on two dates in three days. That’s too much, too soon. That comes off as a guy desperate for a relationship. He’s lonely. He’s got nothing else going on in his life. And then a few days later, you’re asking her for coffee on Christmas. It’s like it’s a bad way to go, dude. The book tells you not to do this, but you did it anyway. And so, predictably, you got blown off.

Fast forward three weeks and I’ve not heard from her and I find myself writing this email thinking she’d bailed however.

However, did he wait? Nope. Again, he presupposes the worst. The woman told you she was fucking busy and she would be in touch. She said it multiple times, but the fact that you don’t listen and you can’t hold out and you’re freaking out after three weeks, you are further cementing in her mind that you are undesirable. You have no success with women. There’s something wrong with you and she wants nothing to do with you. This is how you completely blow a good opportunity.

I decided to ping her a quick voicemail asking how she was and seeing when she’s free to meet up.

Dude. Twice. Actually three times. She’s told you she’s going to get in touch and you never allowed her to get in touch in her time. You assumed it was over and she was blowing you off. So really, the only reason you’re reaching out is trying to find her if she’s interested or not. But if you look at her actions, she’s busy. But when you keep barraging her like this, this is how you completely blow a good opportunity. Which it started out that way.

I sent this on Tuesday night. I got a voicemail from her the following morning thanking me for my message.

So it just shows your low priority.

She said she’s been super busy.

Works crazy, super busy. But she’s really doing now is like, okay, this is why she waited till the next day to tell you how busy she is, because the reality she doesn’t want to see you now.

As her mom and dad have been seriously unwell and has had no time to meet however. She said she’d like to still meet up so she’ll reach out to me when she has a free evening.

How about you allow her to do that?

I responded by saying that’s cool, reach out when you’re free. And that’s where I am. My assessment is that she sounds like she has a lot on her plate and dating isn’t a priority to her at the moment.

Well, if you’d have been easygoing, easy to get along with, and not been so needy and clingy, you probably would have already had a couple more dates and she would have reached out if you had just waited and follow what the book says. But you didn’t. You were too needy, you’re too clingy. And quite frankly, dude, you’re about my age. You’re too old to be behaving this way. You’re acting like the horny virgin teenager trying to lose his virginity on spring break.

And maybe her interest has dropped from our first date for whatever reason.

Her interest is dropped because you’re needy and clingy and you’re not following the book. The book tells you not to do these things, and you did them anyways.

So I’m thinking I’ll just wait to hear from her to see if she reaches out again or just flakes out completely.

Again, you got to give women the space to follow through in their plans and commitments. Again she’s told you this three times she will get in touch when her schedule frees up. It might be a month or two before you hear from her. Maybe it’s three months, maybe never. But if you keep barraging her because you can’t exercise emotional self control, I promise you, you will turn her off and she’ll just ghost you or tell you she’s no longer interested or she met somebody else.

I won’t reach out again if I don’t hear from her. Would love to get your thoughts on my situation.

Thanks for all you do Corey.

Well, you’d have been in a much better place if you’d have followed what was in the book. Because this girl really liked you to begin with. And it looks like you just turned her off and kind of blown it with her. So at this point, it would be surprising if she does reach out. It’s like a 50/50 shot. But I promise you, you keep reaching out and keep trying to text her. You’ll either get ghosted or she’ll friend zone you. You know, this is why the book is laid out the way it’s laid out. I mean, this is 20 years of data and coaching and thousands and thousands of emails and phone sessions to perfect what’s in the book. And you’re basically trying to reinvent the wheel and go against things that are so obvious and so easy to understand and well explained in the book that you should know better. You’ve got to control yourself. You’ve got to check yourself before you wreck yourself. Because if you do this with every girl, you’re never going to get a girlfriend. You’re going to chase every girl right out of your life. And we’ve all been there. I did it when I was younger, didn’t know any better, and pretty much most of the people watching this video have been there. So control your emotions. You know, this is only one girl. There are other girls that are out there, so go spend your time with women that are single and ready to mingle.

So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen on any page, and book a coaching session with yours truly. Until next time, I will talk to you soon.