How often you should reach out and contact women first to make them chase you.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss 2 different emails from 2 different viewers. The 1st email is from a 49-year-old viewer who is confused about how often you should text or call and reach out to women, probably because he hasn’t read the book 10-15 times. He is confusing contact initiation with a texting exchange.
The 2nd email is from a guy who has been on 4 dates with a woman and slept with her on the last 2 dates, but she doesn’t reach out at all after dates. He’s wondering if he’s wasting his time, because she is just going along with it and not really into him, and how long he should let it go on before assuming she is structured or not really into him. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the bodies of their emails.
First Viewer’s Email:
Hi Coach Corey.
I am 49, decent looking, own my own business, which is doing well, and am focused on my path. I have been divorced about 4 years and found that if you have your crap together, it is easy to get a date, and by following the principles in your first book, take it from there to the Indoor Olympics. I have been out on maybe 150 dates with 7’s and above since newly single, slept with maybe 1/4 of them on the first date and about 1/3 of them by the second.
Well, I hope you’re practicing safe sex, having sex with all those women in such a short period of time.
Being playful while also being assertive, but never aggressive, works wonders. But I seem to be having some challenges when dating 8’s and above who are in the 40-47 year old bracket, (most of them single moms).
I can just see the red pill guys going, “Oh, you don’t date single moms!” Now, we’re assuming that these women are normal and healthy, but he seems to be having a problem with women who are single moms, for whatever reason. It’s kind of like a lot of the red Pill podcasts, they have the same kind of women on. You know, women that are strippers, that are hookers, that are sex workers, chicks that come from broken families, that are just simply not a representation of normal, healthy women.
For the most part, those are the kind of women that you’re going to hook up with, maybe have friends with benefits with, while you’re dating and looking for somebody whose goals and values match your own. Somebody that’s constantly dating or only dates those kinds of women, it’s understandable why they get so jaded and pissed off and they just say, “Well, this is modern women.”
My problem area seems to be the time frame between after a successful first date, but before the 4th date. My theory is that a more mature woman will choose a man of lower value who is more available to them than a man of higher value who seems less available to them, but curious of your thoughts.
Well, if she’s got low self-esteem, absolutely. And maybe you like dating women with the low self-esteem, but I don’t. All women are insecure to a degree about certain things, but women who have mommy and daddy issues, especially when they’re in their 40s, oh man. It’s just a nightmare to try to date women like that. But you do you, boo-boo.
My question is in two parts:
1) While in the early stages, I limit my text contact and try to use texting for setting dates. With middle-aged women, I wonder if such limited contact conveys a lack of interest, and that perceived lack of interest works against me more than the benefit of the mystery of not hearing from me.
That’s just total bullshit.
Unlike men, who don’t mind talking to many women at a time, I have learned that women, especially middle-aged women and especially single moms…
In other words, women with problems. He’s got a group here, so he’s got a high incidence of single moms not reacting too well to this. And if he had read the book 10 to 15 times and known this backwards and forwards, he would understand that when you apply what’s in the book, it’s going to bring out the best in the best and the worst in the worst.
Women that have got self esteem issues, maybe mental health issues, mommy and daddy issues aren’t going to react too well, and their behavior, they may just get pissed off and dip, or ghost you, or give you a terse response and tell you they’re not interested. That’s fine. You want a woman who’s easygoing, easy to get along with. And this guy sounds like he’s trying to turn women who are difficult to get along with into somebody that’s good to date, versus just letting her bounce out.
You want a woman who’s a net positive to your life, not somebody that’s getting pissed off after only a couple of dates. That’s why you apply what’s in the book. Because if you’re going slightly slower than she is and she’s insecure, she’s going to get angry, she’s going to get upset, and she’s going to get pissed off, and she’s going to let you know about it.
My life is a drama free zone. I do not tolerate that kind of nonsense. I don’t date people like that, I don’t associate with people like that.,I don’t have friends that are like that. I want nothing to do with those kinds of humans, because life is hard enough without somebody that’s constantly getting butt-hurt. But if you want to continue dating this group of women, this is what you’re going to have to deal with, which I think is nuts.
And that also seems to make sense why you’ve dated and slept with so many of them and it’s just none of it’s really gone anywhere. If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’re going to continue to get what you’ve always got. Just like the red pill guys can’t ever seem to get away from the chicks that belong to the streets. And then they just, with a broad brush say, “this is all this is how all women are.” And, of course, that’s the only kind of women that they ever have on their podcasts.
…prefer to only talk with one, maybe two men at a time, will pick their best available (key word) option, and focus on that while putting other options on hold. And if a man isn’t being as responsive to them as they would like, my theory is they think you are either A) playing the field (younger women might not care, older women I believe find it unattractive).
Well, again, you’re not an expert on this. You’re still learning, and you’re writing things in here that are just simply not true. Because you’re trying to rationalize and make excuses for the kind of women that you’re constantly attracting. I mean, this should jump out at you; if you’re dating a group of women, like, in this case, single moms between 40 and 47 years old, and they’re not reacting too well, that should tell you something about their self-esteem. This is what you want. You want to see this undesirable behavior. You want to see them getting upset. You want to see them getting pissed off early on, so you can dip – not try to fix them or save them or be Captain Save-a-Hoe.
Or, B) not that interested in them, which will cause them to go to a lower-value option who they hear from more and make it clear they are really into them.
It sounds like this guy’s a little insecure and worried about other guys, as well. “I may lose a girl to another guy.” That’s a scarcity mindset. That’s not somebody that has an abundance mindset. Also, when I read something like that, does it really sound like this dude has gone out with 150 different women? And slept with about half of them, I guess, by his numbers? It doesn’t sound like it. It sounds like he’s kind of bullshitting me a little bit. What do you guys think?
2) You describe that a man should only be doing 20%-30% of the calling/initiating. But what is the thumb rule for texting when a woman is responsive?
Well, dude, this is in the book. This is how I can tell you haven’t read it 10 to 15 times. Like I said in the very beginning, contact initiating – this means all conversation threads are closed. She’s not waiting from a response from you, and you’re not waiting for a response from her. One date per week until she starts reaching out. And when we get to this next email, you’ll see this guy’s been out on four dates and she hasn’t reached out once. Now, she may be structured, she may be following some book, “The Rules.” She may be following a female coach that has come and learned my work, and is now teaching women to use this on men. And what’s happening is she’s teaching women to basically act masculine, which is going to turn off all of the masculine guys these women date.
The phones for setting dates. If she’s reaching out to you, again, just like I talked about at the beginning. Say you had your first date and it went well, and then a couple of days later, she’s responsive, as this guy says. In other words, she reaches out. What do you do then? You make the next date, pretty simple. This is right in the book. These are basic, 101 things. More than likely, he hasn’t read the book. Maybe he thumbed through it once, and he’s just been cherry picking off of videos.
But, I mean, to go out with that many women and then still be complaining that you’re worried about losing chicks to other guys, and that there’s a small group of women, the single moms from 40 to 47, that are giving you a lot of trouble, and yet you keep trying to date them? I mean, the light bulbs should be going off that there might be something wrong with your approach. Because the idea of the book is, if you just apply what’s in the book, you’re going to get undesirable behavior from undesirable women early on, and not six months down the road when it’s much harder to leave.
Most women will send a text and not text again until you do respond…
You don’t ignore women. I don’t teach that, so I don’t know why you’re asking that.
…but if you reply, now you’re doing 50% of the reaching out.
No, you’re not. Reaching out is reaching out when you’re not waiting to hear from her. If you’re just responding to her text, that’s a text exchange. That’s an ongoing conversation thread that is not closed yet. And if you’re just ignoring women in the middle of a text exchange and they’re getting upset with you, well, that’s kind of stupid. I mean, that’s on you. I don’t teach to ignore women. That’s right in the book. So, again, this is how I can tell that a guy hasn’t read my work.
What is the best practice for text responding enough, so she knows you’re not blowing her off and that you are still an available option for her, but still giving her the gift of thinking about you and missing you?
Again, the phone is for setting dates. So, if she’s reached out and you don’t have a date set, and you haven’t talked to her, assume she wants to see you. If you haven’t talked to her for 2 to 3 days and she reaches out and says, “Hey, what are you up to? How’s your day going?” you should assume she’s reaching out because she wants to see you. You say, “My day is going great, but it’s even better now that I’m hearing from you. I’d love to see you. What’s your schedule like? When are you available?” And then you make the next date and then you get together.
It sounds like, based on the way he’s worded this, that he just ignores them and doesn’t reply at all, because he thinks that somehow he’s confused a conversation with contact initiation, and he’s trying to be a robot. “Oh, I’ve got to do 50%… does not compute.”
I know you would say, reply to them if they write you, but what happens if they reply back a half hour later? Do you reply again?
Make a date, dude. The phone is not for giving out information. It’s facilitating a get-together. And if she’s texting you, you should take that as a compliment. You should take that as she wants to see you and make a date. You don’t go, “Oh, what do I do? I didn’t read the book 15 times, but I’m going to give Corey all my theories.”
At that point, you’re just like every other low-value guy she’s been out with.
Thank you for your time Coach and helping us all out.
Well, I don’t teach to ignore women, but like I said, it’s obvious that you’re confusing a conversation with contact initiation. So, read the book 10 to 15 times, dude. There are no shortcuts to success. If you’re struggling with something that’s so basic as that, you haven’t taken the time to learn the material. You’re just making it way harder on yourself than it needs to be. And that is on you. Because as the late, great Don Shula said, “Strong men blame themselves, weak men blame others.”
Second Viewer’s Email:
I’ve been seeing a girl for 4 weeks now and have done, at most, one date per week. I wait to text 3-4 days after our last date to ask her out and don’t text her at all in between dates. Things have progressed each date to where she’s been sleeping over the past couple of dates and we’ve hooked both times.
Perfect. So, so far so good.
She’s very playful and affectionate when we’re together and it seems like, in person, her attraction is growing. She has been the one to initiate sex each time, after I slowly escalated physical contact throughout the night. The last time, she was the one that suggested we go back to my place to hang out.
So, this is the desired result physically that you’re getting. Because what this guy is doing is he’s sticking to one date per week. She hasn’t reached out, and if she doesn’t start reaching out, that’s all she’s going to get from you, is one date per week. So what’s happening is he’s going slower than she is. And even when it comes to physical contact, he’s slowly escalating it slower than she is, to the point where she’s so wound up and turned on that she moves things along to the bedroom.
And this is typically my world. This is where I live, and this is the sweet spot. This is where you want to be with your girl, where she’s wanting sex from you more than you want it from her. You never have to worry about getting rejected. And it’s a fun place to be, especially when we’re just surrounded by dudes that are sexually frustrated and aren’t having sex.
I think it was yesterday’s video or maybe the day before, there was a guy who had been with this girl for three years, and he stopped applying the fundamentals in the book, stopped opening her up about a year and a half ago, and now they have sex once every month or two, and he’s the one initiating it. That definitely means that the girl is not attracted to you, because he hasn’t made her feel heard and understood.
She doesn’t seem like a hook-up kind of girl, (or a party girl). She hasn’t had sex in a while and doesn’t date a lot. She has a great career and full friend group. The problem is that she never initiates texting in between dates. You usually say that 4 dates in, and after sleeping together, the girl will slowly start to text more, even if it’s innocuous things like “how are you?” which I can then use to set up the next date. But right now, it’s basically radio silence until the next date.
She may be structured, she may be following a set of rules. Because there are women out there that have learned my material and they think they’re going to be clever and think, “Oh, I’m going to teach women to use this on men.” And so, what they’re doing is they’re teaching women to act like men, basically, which is going to wreck the sexual polarity.
And so, she may be following a set of rules. I think the book “The Rules” even says this, you don’t ever reach out to a guy. He’s got to do all of the pursuing. He’s got to pursue you. And so, what happens is these women attract a lot of very effeminate men. Because masculine men, men that have choices, if they’ve got a girl that’s like, “Oh, I miss you, I can’t wait to see you. I had such a great time,” versus the chick that’s not making any effort, you’re just eventually going to spend time with the girl who’s easier going and easier to get along with.
She doesn’t seem to be too structured, since she’s been open to physical contact on every date, (and like I said, she initiates it).
But maybe she’s purposely holding back. She’s purposely not calling you or texting you, because she’s following some rules. But it’s only four dates in here, so you don’t know what you don’t know yet.
I know the fallback you talk about in always reaching out once a week, which I’m doing. But I’m wondering how long I should continue asking her out if she never initiates but we have a great time on our dates? Does this mean she’s not interested, and I should stop asking her out so that I can make room for someone who’s enthusiastic about me?
Well, she definitely seems to be enthusiastic about hooking up, so that’s a good sign. But if I’m a betting man, I would say there is probably a greater than 50/50 chance that she’s a little structured, and she’s following some rules, and she’s purposely not reaching out to you.
Or should I still keep asking her out, even though I’m the only one initiating dates?
Well, guess what? If you had other women that you were dating, you really wouldn’t care too much. You’d actually be probably kind of glad. But what would happen if you’re dating 2 or 3 other women and you take two other women through this same process, then by week three, week four, you’ve got both of these other women who are now initiating contact and their interest is going up. And now you’re seeing them more than this girl that’s like once a week.
What would typically happen is the other girls would make things so much better – that’s assuming they are a similar quality of women and similar in the looks department and everything – that eventually you just won’t even call this girl anymore. And then maybe a few weeks or a month or so will go by, and then she’ll reach out to you and you’ll be like, “Hey, sorry. I got serious with somebody else. And you never reached out, I never heard anything from you. You were fun when we got together, but you never made any effort, and you never said anything, so I met another girl who was just much more aggressive and made a mutual effort.” It’s a lot more fun when the girl makes the effort to make you feel wanted as well.
So, it’s too early to make a decision, but obviously you’re learning. I mean, it’s a good problem to have, but you want to be with a girl that will make the effort, not somebody that’s structured and following a set of rules. Because if you’re dealing with a woman that’s structured and following a set of rules, eventually they get to be a real pain in the ass, because then everything becomes robotic. Then you’re jumping through your butt to match her unreasonable expectations.
I don’t want to end a good thing if we’re connecting on dates, but I also don’t want someone who is just going along with it.
Would love your thoughts.
Well, I wouldn’t say she’s just going along with it, but it does sound like she is structured. And that’s why I don’t recommend you date structured women. Because if she’s really structured, she’ll never contact you, she’ll never initiate, because those are her rules. The man’s supposed to do all of it. And me, personally, I want somebody that doesn’t have a problem with ever texting me, or wanting to get together, or letting her interest or attraction be known. You want a woman that acts naturally, not a robot.
So, I would take it day by day and see what happens. I mean, if you get two months down the road and she’s talking about getting serious, but she still hasn’t reached out to you once, I wouldn’t get serious with a girl like that. There’s something going on there. Maybe she’s following a set of rules.
Maybe when you’re laying naked in bed after week 6 or 7 and she tells you she’s in love with you and wants to be exclusive, I would bring it up. Just say, “How come you never call me? How come you never text me? I’ve never dated a girl that not a single time has ever reached out. What is it? Do you have a rule that you don’t make any effort? What’s up with that?”
But right now, I wouldn’t worry about it. What I would do if I were you is I would have other women to date. You’ve got to think of, especially when you’re learning this stuff, it’s like the practice squad on an NFL team. You’re constantly churning your practice squad. You’ve constantly got new people getting signed to the practice squad. You’ve got people that are getting dropped from the practice squad. They get poached by other teams. Sometimes they get back together with an ex or whatever. Sometimes you cut them. Sometimes they move up to your active roster, they move a little bit higher up on the hierarchy.
So, it’s too soon to make a decision with her, but like I said, if you’re a month in and she’s never reached out or texted once, that’s not normal. That, to me, from the looks of it, it’s on purpose. It’s willful. And the question is why? Why is it willful? More than likely, that’s the sign of a structured woman. That’s a woman that is following a set of rules. And that’s just the first rule that you’ve learned about her. Who knows what the other rules may be. She may be a total screwball. You just don’t know yet.
That’s why it would be helpful if you had other women to date. Because then what would happen is the structured girl, if you just stop calling her and you never hear from her again then, obviously, she wasn’t that into it or that torn up about it. You want somebody that’s easygoing, easy to get along with, not somebody that’s a difficult pain in the ass.
So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly.
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