How to overcome nice guy syndrome so you can date and seduce the women you want.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a new viewer who has nice guy syndrome. He is too nice and respectful to women to the point that he acts like a weak beta male with no confidence and no game. He constantly gets friend zoned with the women he really likes, because he dithers and hesitates too much and doesn’t lead his interactions with them.
He’s too afraid to go for a kiss or escalate things physically that can lead to the indoor Olympics. With women he’s not that into, he does things effortlessly. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.
When I read this email, it’s just gives me flashbacks to my early twenties. And I think he’s starting to realize the things that I know I used to do. When he goes out on dates with women he’s not that into, he does everything right and the women are crazy about him. And then when he goes out with a girl he really likes, his behavior changes. He’s extra nice, he doesn’t make a move right away, he holds back, and the women can sense this. And by the time he finally gets around to making a move and being direct and decisive, he’s gotten himself friend zoned.
What’s happening is he gives off the vibe that he doesn’t have the confidence to go for what he wants. And I remember this. I remember one in particular I wrote about in my book. I was in my early twenties, and this girl really liked me. I could tell by her eye contact the night we first met, and especially on our first date. And even the second date, I could tell she was really into me. But as the weeks went by, we started talking more and more on the phone, and I didn’t really understand the process of dating and going from dating to hooking up to relationships, how the whole thing was supposed to progress. Then we’d end up talking on the phone constantly for several weeks and not really going out much, and then I got friend zoned and ghosted.
As a man, especially when you’re younger, you don’t know any better and you can tell a girl is into you, and then as the weeks go by, you in essence talk her out of liking you. So, it’s good email, because this guy is relatively new to my work, and people come to my work, typically, not because things are going great, but because things are going sideways and they’re trying to figure out what the hell happened.
After watching a few of your videos I went ahead and purchased your audiobook.
Obviously he’s talking about the “3% Man” audiobook. And by the way, because I always tell everybody, read it 10 to 15 times, the best way to get through it the quickest is to get a combination of the audiobook and either a paperback, hardcover, or a digital version of it. If you get the Kindle and you get the audible version of it, they have something called whisper sync. And so, what happens is, as you’re listening to the audiobook, you’ll see yellow highlights of the text as it’s being read through.
And so, the quickest way to get through it is to put it on 2-speed. If you’re following along visually as the words are being read, while you’re listening to it on 2-speed, you can get through this book in about 3 1/2 hours or so. So, if you want to get through 10+ reads, it really forces you to concentrate, versus just listening to the audiobook when you’re driving in your car, or you’re working out, or you’re doing things around the house, as you’re playing it through your speaker system, or whatever. So, that’s a little tip. It works great. Because you’re forced to concentrate on it, you’ll get through it quicker and you’ll retain more of it.
I was in a 9-year relationship which ended around 2017. I didn’t really date at all or even try to date for about 2 years.
So, that was nine years the guy was in a relationship. And so, here’s the interesting thing about that. Typically, most people take about a year and a half to get over a breakup. And so, that would kind of make sense, a year and a half. I mean, he was almost a decade with the same woman. And so, he’s back out in the world, the dating game, and it’s pretty normal to take a year and a half, two years off, especially when you’ve been together with somebody that long.
Because if you’ve spent a decade of your life with somebody, your whole identity is wrapped up in who you are in that relationship and doing things together. You’ve got mutual friends, families, you’re spending the holidays together, and then all of a sudden, that person is no longer in your life. Then you’ve got to kind of get back to being who you were and enjoying your life being single again, reconnecting with friendships that you may have let go by the wayside, which definitely happens over the course of a decade. Especially as you get older, those things are just going to happen. People move away, “Oh, I’ll call them next week,” “I’ll see him next year,” and then the next thing you know, five years go by, and you haven’t talked to somebody you use to be really close to.
Around 2019, I put some hard work into myself. I then started to date a girl late 2021 that I was introduced to by a coworker.
So, notice what he says…
She was really into me, and I hardly had to do anything to hook up with her. I also wasn’t really into her, but we dated for about 8 months and I broke things off with her early this year.
I saw a comment earlier from somebody on YouTube that was saying, “Hey, I’m making dates and I’m doing the things that you’re talking about, but all these girls are cancelling.” And I said to him, “What’s going on there is you’re making dates with women that just aren’t that interested in you.” You want to spend time with women that have enthusiasm for you, and there’s going to be a lot fewer women who are going to have enthusiasm.
The reality is women will give you their number, or their Instagram, or their Facebook, or their Snapchat because they don’t want to reject you in person. And when I was younger, I didn’t know any better either. I’d say, “Hey, if a girl gives you the number, of course she’s interested. If she’s not, she would just say, No.” I didn’t understand at the time that guys will give a girl a hard time if the girl rejects him in person.
So, it’s either just give out the number and reject the guy later, or not respond to the guy and hope he figures out that you weren’t interested. It’s rude, but that’s reality. And when you understand that, it helps keep you from wasting a lot of time and getting upset at things you shouldn’t get upset at. And in this case, this girl is really into him, and since he’s not into her, he does everything perfect.
Over the last 2 months, I really decided to start dating and put myself in dating apps. The first date, since probably 2011, I went to was with a girl that I was immediately drawn into.
Now, keep in mind, this girl might not have been as into him. Because he’s enthusiastic for her, and you’ve got to make sure the woman is enthusiastic for you also. Because we tend to project our high interest onto the other person, and we ignore that they’re just not reciprocating.
We went on three dates, and after that she told me she thought I was an amazing and super sweet guy, but she didn’t feel a romantic “spark” towards me.
Probably because he was a little overeager, and she could tell that he was way more into her than she was into him. And so, you can see, he’s basically in the opposite position now with the girl he had just been dating for eight months, where she was super into him and he wasn’t into her. That’s kind of how karma works.
And so, now he’s getting the opposite of that. But it’s hard when you’re in this situation. Especially for him, that was 11 years since he met somebody he was that excited about. That’s a decade. And so, it’s understandable that he’s going to be super excited and super enthusiastic when the last time that happened was about 10, 11 years ago.
I didn’t initiate anything physical until our third date.
So, if you’re super into a girl and then you’re not doing anything, what she starts to recognize is you’re the nice guy. You’re not direct, you’re not decisive, you’re not really confident in going for what you want. Especially if she can tell you really like her, but you keep your hands to yourself because you’re trying to be Mr. Respectful.
Then she’s going to start to go, “Oh, this guy doesn’t have confidence. He’s a beta male. If I start dating this guy, he’ll probably become obsessed with me, he’ll probably become kind of stalkerish. He might get kind of angry when I pull back a little bit, if I’m not sure about my interest in him.” Because so many women have been on dates with guys that are like that, and it scares them. So, when a guy gives off that vibe, they’re automatically turned off.
Our second date did end with a kiss on the lips.
It doesn’t sound like there was any passion, though. So, in other words, he didn’t go for a French kiss. It was just a little peck on the lips good night, probably because that’s all the confidence he could muster.
And on our 3rd date we made out twice. I was just nervous during our dates, being afraid to fuck things up, thinking she would think I just wanted sex if I tried to make out with her too early into our dates…
Well, the other thing I talk about it in “3% Man” is the kiss test. If you’re with a woman and you’re sitting next to her or close to her, like say she’s sitting there and you’re looking into each other’s eyes, then you can kind of slowly look down at her lips, and then into her eyes, and then down again, and then back up. And if she looks at your lips at the same time, then you know she’s ready to be kissed, and you go for it.
But instead, this guy is all up in his head and he’s like, “I really want this girl to like me. I don’t want to upset her. I don’t want to offend her.” He’s being too nice. And if she’s a relatively pretty girl, especially if she’s on Tinder or another dating app, she’s been on lots of dates with guys that just didn’t know what they were doing. And they don’t want to teach men how to be men. They want you to know. Especially if you like them, they want you to go for it. I mean, at the end of the day, the woman submits to the man. That’s what they want, a man who’s strong enough to do that, to recognize the cues and go for it.
…or if I was too physical.
So, again he’s Mr. Nice Guy and doesn’t want to upset her. But at the end of the day, as I talk about in “3% Man,” especially if you really like each other, you should be going for the kiss at the end of the night. She might even invite you in.
I just asked questions and listened to her for most of the time. After rejecting a future date and telling me I was amazing and loved my personality, she told me she really wanted to stay friends. Against all my will of trying to be the “nice guy,” I thanked her with a smile after being rejected. I told her that I didn’t want more female friends since I already had enough, that I was trying to date and that I couldn’t see her as just a friend. Then told her she had my number and told her to reach out if she had a change of heart about me and wished her the best. She loved my text, and I haven’t contacted her since then, about 2 weeks ago.
As a man, you’ve got to be congruent with that. And you’ll see in a second, he doesn’t seem to understand the importance of congruency. When a man says something, he needs to follow through on it. Because if you say one thing and you do another, she’s not going to trust your masculine core.
I feel I am too nice of a guy, especially with a girl that I really like.
Yeah, that’s not going to work, dude. You need to treat them all the same. And this is something I touch on in “3% Man” as well. What’s happening is you’re pedestalizing this woman that you really like. You put this girl on a pedestal, and you kissed her ass, and you’re extra nice and Mr. Respectful. And you keep your hands yourself and you don’t want her to get upset if you’re going for the kiss, or whatever. But she wants you to be man enough to know what to do and to do it, not to hold back and sit there and act like a prude.
This was the first girl that I really liked and that I really went on real dates with where I put a lot of effort into.
You’ve also got to notice, what kind of effort are you getting back? Was she excited to see you? Was she excited to talk to you? Was she touching you at any time? Was she playing with her hair? Was she leaning in towards you? Where was her knee pointed? What was her body language like? These are all things you should be looking for and noticing. And again, I go into extensive detail on this stuff and what to look for in my book. Because when you can see that and you can read in the body language that women just like you, you don’t have to worry about getting rejected.
I am back to dating apps, since I didn’t delete my profile, trying to talk to more women. But I just wanted to see if it is a good idea to call or text this girl in maybe a month and just say, “Hey how have you been? I was thinking, if you would take me up on that fourth date.”
Remember, what did he say? “I am not interested in being friends. Call me if you change your mind.” And so, at that point in the “negotiation,” because all of life is a negotiation, she says, “I can give you blue balls and a platonic friendship.” And he said, “No thanks. I’m interested in sex and romance. I’m not interested in blue balls, and I have enough female friends. But if you change your mind, please get in touch.” And then you walk away.
It’s like if you’re at a car dealer and you’re negotiating for a price, and you’re like, “I want to pay $20,000.” And the dealer is like, “Well, we can we can do $25,000.” And then you get up and leave. And then you call a few days or a few weeks later, “Hey, I’m calling to see if you can do $20,000.” Right then, they know that you really want the car, and they know they’ll probably be able to get you to come up in price. So, from a negotiating standpoint and a leverage standpoint, the strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it.
And so, for you to go back on what you told her and reach out in a month just shows, again, you’re in the approval seeking mentality. And that’s basically what got you rejected to start with. You were hoping that she would accept you instead of you going, “Is this girl good for me? Do I like her? Does she have similar goals, similar values? Does she have enthusiasm for me?” Instead of looking at that and her being on probation as well, it’s like you’re automatically ready to run off and marry this girl. You’ve just accepted that she’s perfect, even though you know nothing about her.
Or would that be a “nice guy syndrome” kind of thing?
I wouldn’t reach out. Just let her be. Because she was offering friendship to you. And if you say, “No thanks. Call me if you change your mind,” and then a few weeks later you come back to her, you’re acquiescing to friendship. You communicated that you couldn’t hold out and you couldn’t be congruent with what you told her. So, she might like that you reached out and she might hang out with you, but at the end of the day, you just gave away all your leverage and all your power.
Because women have to know that if they push you too far, you’ll walk and never look back. And that’s what’s happened here. She pushed him too far, and he says, “I’m not interested in friendship or blue balls, but call me if you change your mind.” And if you run back to her, then you’re going, “You know what? Even though I’m saying I only want romance, here I am. And so, I guess I’ll accept blue balls and friendship after all.” And then you won’t get anywhere.
Should I just move on and let it be?
Absolutely. Because you want to make sure the other person is choosing you and that she’s got the attitude of “Hell yeah! I’d love to see you. I’d love to go out with you.” And more than likely, a girl like this, in three or four weeks or a month or whatever, she might be like, “Hey!” Because most guys don’t have the balls to walk away when the woman doesn’t show any interest. They stick around trying to change her mind, and they never get out of friend zone.
We had so much in common in many important aspects of life.
Yeah, but what’s her interest? Instead of her pulling you in, she pushed you away. So, you’re projecting your high interest onto her, and you’re ignoring the fact that she’s not really reciprocating, dude.
I just feel I was too reserved and didn’t create any sexual tension between the two of us during our dates.
It doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter. The bottom line is that you should have gone for the kiss at the end of the first date. And if she had kissed you back passionately, then she would have gotten a second date. But instead, you waited until the third date to try anything, and by then you were getting friend zoned.
But overall, at the end of the day, I would say this girl really didn’t have high interest in you. I think she had mediocre interest in you. If I look at her actions, she was kind of just going along with it. So, on a scale of 1 to 10, as far as attraction, I would say you were probably a 5 in her eyes. It’s obvious she was a 9 or 10 in your eyes. But the way she felt and looked at you, you were about a 5, so you were just barely okay enough for her to go out on a date with. That’s the bottom line.
All we have to do is look at the actions. What were her actions? What were your actions? Yeah, you’re kind of dopey and overly enthusiastic, but you’re kind of ignoring the fact that she was not reciprocating. That’s important. That’s part of being a man, and being realistic, and seeing what the situation is, and saying, “You know what, I deserve to have somebody that really wants to be with me, that’s excited to be with me.”
When women like you, they help you. They make it easy for you. And when you stay engaged with women with low interest, it takes your attention away from any other women out there in the dating marketplace that you could potentially date, because you’re focused on who’s not interested in you. And if you, deep down, feel that you don’t deserve to have what you want, you will justify staying involved with trying to change the mind of women that just aren’t reciprocating. Again, I talk about this also in “3% Man.”
So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly.
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