How you can spot low quality women who use the friend zone to manipulate men with the promise of potential romance later.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a viewer who has been out on a few dates with a woman who checks a lot of the boxes that he wants in a woman, but she keeps trying to friend zone him. He doesn’t appear to realize that he is trying to date a woman who has low interest.
He is mostly doing a good job of handling her objections and standing up for himself and what he wants, but his gut is telling him that something is off with her. He asks my opinion. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.
I’ve got an email here from a guy who’s been out on a few dates with this girl, and it seems like her interest kind of went the other way. And I think he’s been on three dates now, and she keeps bringing out friendship, trying to change the plans. And these are some of the things that I talk about in my first book, How To Be A Three Percent Man.
You’re going to encounter a couple of different types of women — typically, women with low interest who try to friend zone you, and then women that really have no interest but are manipulative and they simply want something from you and will offer you friend zone with the promise of more later. In other words, they’ll kind of dangle the carrot of, oh, let’s just be friends first. So, the reality is you’re never going to agree to something like that.
So I’ve got a quote that I wrote, and then we’ll just jump right into this guy’s email, because I know a lot of guys experience this. And it’s really super important, because if you really like the girl and she has potential but her interest is low, you can become more attractive in her eyes by standing up for yourself and being able to walk away and never look back.
So let’s go through the quote. It says, “Low quality women and women who have low interest will often try to manipulate and/or test men by using the friend zone with the promise of potential romance later. Low quality women dangle the carrot of potential romance later because they want something from the guy.”
Maybe they want the guy to pay her bills, which I’ve seen over the years when I’ve done phone sessions. I’ve got another email that I’m probably going to do this week that discusses this same topic, and it’s just some of the facepalm moments in this guy’s particular email. It’s pretty bad. He was able to get out of the friend zone, but obviously, it’s just some of the things you just don’t want to do, because there are women out there that will manipulate you because they want something from you.
Maybe they want business from you. Maybe they want you to invest in their business. Whatever happens to be, if you’re interested in romance, you’re never, ever, ever, never going to agree to spend time with a woman who uses the “F” word on you, the friendship word. You’ve got to nip that bud and say, “No, I’m not interested in that at all. You can go on down the road.”
“Women who have low interest will try to use the friend zone to test a man’s strength and to see if he will put up with her trying to friend zone him. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it.”
So, if a woman is trying to put you into the friend zone, but she has some romantic interest, she’s going to test your strength to see if you’ll agree to it. Now, a man who loves and values and respects himself, he’s just going to politely decline that and say, “Thanks, but no thanks. Get in touch if you ever change your mind.” And then he’s going to walk away forever, delete her number, move on with his life.
He’s not going to entertain that, because if he’s interested in romance, he’s not going to go spend time on a date and spend money on her and give her a free meal and free drinks, or whatever the hell it happens to be, to get nothing in return. It’s like, you’re either in or out. You either want somebody that’s excited about the opportunity to be with you or you don’t.
“Men who want romance should never agreed to dates that are during the day, such as coffee, lunch or anything that is platonic in nature.”
Never, ever, ever agree to do anything platonic if you’re interested in romance, because as soon as you do, you are basically agreeing to her negotiation terms. And therefore, she’s going to lose respect. Even though she might like having you as a friend, she’ll lose respect for you as a man and you’ll never get access to the box. Not going to happen. Don’t do it.
“They also should never agree to a date when a woman suggests friends first or friendship only.”
So this is really important. If a woman is not excited about the prospect of potential romance with you, she’s not worth your time. The greatest gift you can give anybody is the gift of your time. Never, ever let somebody waste it.
So with that in mind, let’s take a look at this guy’s email. And he’s actually done a pretty good job of handling her objections. He’s just dealing with a woman that’s really not that into him. But you know, what’s interesting, what I like about the email is that she’s using friendship to try to manipulate this guy, and she comes at him from several different angles to get him to agree to the friend zone.
I hope you’re doing well! I’ve been following your work for a little while now, read and listened to “How To Be A 3% Man” cover to cover 6 times, (I know, need to bump those numbers up), refresh frequently and have applied it to great effect.
I have recently encountered a situation with this girl that absolutely knocked my socks off that I haven’t previously. The first two dates went well, great balance of conversation, lots of signs of interest, hair twirling, giggling, playing with her drink and napkin, bumping into me, etc., and we made out at the end of both. At the end of our second, however, I noticed she was holding back.
So, obviously something changed, her body language or physiology, where she’s lacking enthusiasm. So, if you’re out on a date with a woman whose interest is an 8 on a scale of 1-10, unless you said something really stupid or did something really stupid to turn her off, this is not going to happen to you. But if you’re on a date with a woman and her interest is like a 5 or 6 and you maybe put your foot in your mouth a few times, this is the kind of thing that you’ll get. You’ll see that she kind of backs off.
But I took it two steps forward, one step back, and it progressed further than our first date but no sex. When I contacted her to make a third date, I encountered some resistance. She told me she’d let me know what her schedule was like, so I let her.
So, what you’re seeing here, there’s a lack of flexibility and submissiveness on her part. In other words, she’s going to see what else is going on in her life potentially with other guys before she’s going to get back to him, because it’s obvious she knocked his socks off, but she’s like, “Ehh, I’ll see what I can do.” And more than likely, because he’s new to my work, she could tell that he was really into her, way more into her than she was into him. And she already had low interest to start with, so that’s why she’s testing him.
She got in contact with me and suggested meeting at Panera during the day, which felt to me like a friend-test.
It absolutely was a good job for spotting that. That’s why you read the book 10-15 times. When these things happen, you’re on the phone, you’re middle of a text exchange, you don’t have time to thumb through the book and go, “Where is that paragraph? Where is the solution? Where’s the pickup line?” You’ve got to know it backwards and forwards and be able to handle that objection instantaneously.
So, I responded accordingly and suggested a different place in the evening. She agreed.
Again, I wrote about several scenarios like this where this happened to me when I was still learning this stuff back in the day.
On the day of the date, she texted me asking if we could just do Panera instead, still in the evening.
So, she’s trying to see if she can change the plans. Again, this is just another test of his strength. Think about it, you want to go to a nice dinner, we can have some wine, good conversation, a nice restaurant, or do you want to go to Panera Bread, which is kind of like fast food? And so, I like his his his comeback here.
I responded with a lighthearted tease, “Do you really want grilled cheese and soup instead of wine and amazing pasta,” (she loves wine and Italian food), and said let’s stick with our plans because I was really looking forward to going to this awesome place and having a great time.
It’s amazing. This is why you’ve got to know the book. You’ve got to be able to handle these objections, because now she’s just keeps coming at him from different angles, trying to put them in friend zone.
She then dropped the “I’ll be honest I don’t know if I see this going anywhere, so you should save a special place for someone special.”
Obviously, he gave away the fact that he was really into her. Whether he realized it or not, she could tell, this guy is way more into me than I am into him.
“But I hope we can be friends.” I responded explaining I had no interest in anything platonic but to hit me up if she changed her mind and figured that’d be the end of it.
So, now he’s done the takeaway. It’s the day of the date, a few hours before, and now she’s trying to change the plan. And she just used the “F bomb” on him, the friendship bomb, and he wasn’t having it. Again, the strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it. This is why you’ve got to know the material, because this girl’s not giving up very easily. She’s coming at him trying to do the same thing, even though he says no. And even though he’s denied her request, she’s doing it again.
However, she immediately inquired further as to what I wanted, and I told her I’m interested in hanging out, having a great time, romance, dating and fun with a woman I value spending time with.
I would have added, “And a little kissy-poo maybe, if you’re nice to me.”
She said she was confused by that because I “only talk to her to make plans” and that she needs consistent communication and that it was weird that the connection we had on the date wasn’t carried over to the phone.
And so, now after the second date, and he’s trying to make the third, she’s saying, “Oh, you didn’t text me enough, you didn’t call me enough on the phone, and that’s why I’m suggesting friendship.” It’s like, she’s clever. You’ve got to be able to handle these things when they come at you. Most guys would have caved by now.
I explained I had been super busy (truthfully) and that she was more than welcome to text/call me and that I’d love to chat when I can.
Good comeback, good answer, good way to handle that objection.
I decided to salvage the date since this was about 2 hours before we were supposed to meet and agreed to Panera knowing I could convert to drinks/desert/activities after if it went well.
So, you fucked up there, bro. I would have never agreed to Panera. You wanted something romantic, and so at the end of the day, you caved. You caved to what she wanted. There’s a little slight chink in your armor. You say, well, Corey, that’s not really a big deal. Yeah, it is a big deal. When you’re dealing with a woman whose interest is really low, you have to be firm, respectful, playful, like he was, but you don’t go back on your plans unless she suggested something that’s better.
So a nice Italian restaurant, or fucking Panera Bread? I like eating good food. Panera’s nice for lunchtime if you go for a quick bite to eat, but I’m not taking a date there. No, thank you. Thanks, but no thanks. But that’s me.
I understand everybody is not going to go out and spend the kind of money that I’m used to. I like eating at nice places and hanging out with nice people, going out on a nice date with a nice girl in a nice restaurant, because I like good food. I don’t want to go eat a crappy diet. I want good, healthy food.
We met and had an interesting conversation. She did a lot of talking and expressed this was the first time she’d done the “dating thing” where a guy asked for her number and asked her out on consecutive dates. She explained that all of her romantic relationships had begun as friendships first.
She’s still trying to be friends. She’s still trying to get him to comply.
And that this was new and out of her comfort zone.
Whatever. He’s kind of roughing up her ego, because she doesn’t know how to handle it, because normally when she has a low interest in a guy, the explanations go, “That sounds logical. That definitely sounds reasonable. Yeah, let’s agree to friendship first.” And when you do that, after you told her initially, “No, I’m not interesting in anything platonic,” then you’ve got to be crafty. That’s what I really liked about this email is this chick does not give up. She keeps coming at him from 15 different angles. And if you don’t realize what she’s doing, you’re going to screw up.
She expressed her fears of time being wasted dating if it doesn’t work out and that person being gone from her life if there’s no safety net of a friendship.
I reiterated that I was not interested in just being friends, but part of the dating process is of course developing a friendship…
I wouldn’t have used that word.
…as well as interest and romance through the courtship. She was receptive to my point of view. We left Panera and got drinks and desert and had an awesome time, with lots of flirting, laughing, and making out at the end.
But still no sex. Again, mostly you did, right. I’m just here to critique you so you can learn from this, and obviously everybody watching this can learn from this. Because the sooner she runs into a brick wall and there’s no chinks, there’s no holes in the wall, and she can’t get through it without knocking on the door and being polite, and submissive, and sweet and agreeing to your terms, you’re just delaying the seduction.
And the more you give in when you go back on your word, because you went out of your way to tell her that you wanted to go this awesome place, and then you just caved like, “Okay, let’s go to Panera Bread,” because it was two hours before. He’s got this girl on a pedestal, but he did pretty good considering the fact he’s only read the book three times. He handled himself quite well. However, I want your game to be 100 percent tight so you get your outcome.
This girl is 23, so she’s not super young, but seems to me she has very little experience with how dating goes.
Now, you’re rationalizing and you’re making excuses for her.
And perhaps has some deeper insecurities and fears, as well as perhaps being more in her masculine to avoid being hurt.
No, if she’s really super hot, she’s not used to guys standing up to her that she has low interest in.
She mentioned that she has been before.
Well, you know, it happens. Everybody has gotten their heart broken. It happens to all of us.
She checks a lot of boxes on my list from what I can tell so far. But this is concerning to me and I’m trying to determine whether or not I should just move on or keep doing what has been working and see how it plays out.
Thank you for your time and any insight you have Coach!
So, what I would do, I’d wait maybe a week, week and a half and text her for a date. Because again, considering this girl’s got low interest and she keeps using the “F” word — yeah, you made out with her, but the reality is you didn’t seduce her and you agreed. You caved on some things and you went back on your word.
That’s the important thing. You went back on your word. You said, I really want to go to that Italian place. And then, because you were desperate to spend more time with her, then you agreed to go to Panera Bread. I know it’s a small thing, but at the end of the day, you went back on your word. And if you want a woman to trust your masculine core, especially a woman like this who you say is in her masculine, she’s not going to put up with a guy who just caves when she tries to intimidate him a little bit. And that’s what she’s doing, she’s trying to intimidate you.
But again, she still went out. You’ve got to keep in mind, her interest is really low. I’d say it’s a 5 or 6 on a scale of 1-10. That means you’re just barely holding on, hanging on by your fingernails, so you can’t make a lot of mistakes. So, see what happens.
The reason why I say wait a week and a half or so is because maybe she’ll reach out to you. Maybe she’ll start to think, “I kind of screwed this up.” But if a week and a half goes by and you don’t hear from her and you reach out, there’s a good chance she gives you the same thing. She might try to throw it in your face, “Well, I haven’t heard from you.” It’s like, “This ain’t the 1950s anymore, babe. Just like we talked about last time, you said if you wanted to talk you’d reach out, and I haven’t heard from you in a week and a half. It’d be nice if you made some mutual effort. But the good news is I’m still reaching out to you because I’d like to see you. When are you available to get together?” And then you handle the objection.
But like I said, the chances of success with this girl are really low and what you need to do is stop overestimating her interest in you. So 10 to 15 times, that’s why this guy did a really good job after only three times of reading. Again, I busted balls, he made some mistakes, but overall, he did a pretty damn good job. If I was giving him a grade, if this was like a test, I’d say I’d give him a B, 80% out of 100.
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“Low quality women and women who have low interest will often try to manipulate and/or test men by using the friend zone with the promise of potential romance later. Low quality women dangle the carrot of potential romance later because they want something from the guy. Women who have low interest will try to use the friend zone to test a man’s strength and to see if he will put up with her trying to friend zone him. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it. Men who want romance should never agree to “dates” that are during the day such as coffee, lunch or anything that is platonic in nature. They also should never agree to a date when a woman suggests friends first or friendship only. If a woman is not excited about the prospect of potential romance with you, she’s not worth your time.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
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