I Got Out Of Friend Zone. How Do I Stay Out?

How to stay out of friend-zone once you’re out to keep it romantic instead of platonic.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who’s read 3% Man, 15 times. He’s been dating a girl casually for a year now after they both came out of failed marriages. He became lazy and complacent and she dumped him after they got back from a cruise together. She friend-zoned him and he agreed at first. That woke him up and he told her no and walked away.

She came back and they’re friends with benefits, but he asks how to stay out of friend-zone. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

In this particular email, this guy says he’s read 3% Man 15 times. So for about the past year, I guess he’s been dating a girl casually. They both are coming out of failed marriages, they’re both in the middle of a divorce, and they really just kind of had a glorified booty call. They weren’t serious or exclusive.

So they went on a cruise together. He’s thinking everything is going great. He comes back, she basically breaks it off, says she’s not feeling it anymore, doesn’t feel the same way. Right after that, she friend-zones him and he says even though he knew better at first, he agreed to it. Then afterwards, he thought about it and he’s like, “What the hell am I doing?” So he got in touch with her. He said, “No way, I’m not going to do something platonic.” She says, “I need you in my life. My kids need you in their lives. Why can’t we just be friends?” He’s just like, “I don’t want that.” He says, “We can be friends with benefits,” and she’s like, “Well, why didn’t you say that?” So now they’re hooking up again and he’s worried about getting stuck in friend-zone because he noticed the last month or two that her interest was dropping, but by the time he realized what was happening, it was kind of too late. So he clearly got away from what he was doing in the beginning.

If you’re going to date somebody for a year, granted, she’s in the middle of a divorce, but if you’re going to treat somebody, keep them at arm’s length and kind of treat him like a booty call and be adamant about not getting serious, typically there’s a time limit on that. So I suspect what happened, he doesn’t really go into detail, but just what it looks like, women don’t dump men they’re in love with. They dump men they’ve lost attraction and respect for. As he says towards the end of the email, he kind of went into dad-husband mode because he was married for 13 years before that. So I think what happened is he read the book a bunch, got into this situationship, if you will, and as the year went on, he just kind of went right back, probably the same type of behavior that he was displaying that led to the end of his 13-year marriage.

You know, I’ve been doing this 20 years. What most guys do is they stop dating and courting the girl properly, and they don’t make her feel heard and understood. I suspect also he was just kind of becoming lazy, complacent and not doing the same things he was doing before and she just wasn’t feeling anymore. He probably became a little squishy and she was able to kind of push him around a little bit. So let’s go through his email, because lots of guys get into these kinds of situations.

Remember, the strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it. When a woman is basically saying, “Hey, how about friends only? No more sex. You could be my Harry Honda. You can entertain my kids, take us out to dinner, but no sex and romance.” No self-respecting man is going to put up with that. They’re going to dip, and good for him that he finally did. The fact that he read the book so much, watched so many videos and then he gets dumped, she offers friendship and then he accepts, it just shows that he probably backslid quite a bit probably because again, he found out about my work, absorbed it a lot. Then once he started hooking up with her, he just never went back to it, never really took the time to own it and learn it. Then a year later, it bit him in the ass because he kind of got totally away from the book. You got lazy. You got complacent. He wasn’t disciplined. He didn’t do the same things he did before. He wasn’t treating her the same way he was before.

Viewer Email:

Hey Coach,

Let’s start with I’ve listened to your book around 15-20 times already, it’s on repeat in my car.

Well ideally, the best way to learn the book is to not be driving around your car, working on the gym, and listening to the audio-book as background noise, because you’re not really going to be concentrating on it. You should be in a room by yourself with a physical or digital copy of the book, put the audio-book on two-speed, and then look at the book while the words are being spoken, and with the Kindle, the whisper-sync feature, the words literally get highlighted as they’re being spoken by the audio-book. So it really forces your eyes, your ears and your brain to only focus in the material and not listen to the book as background noise, because when you do that, yeah you get through the 15-20 reads, but half the time you’re spacing out, not really paying attention to what’s going on.

That’s why I don’t recommend that you do that. That’s why it’s much better if you’re sitting at home reading the book versus doing things and listening to the audio-book as background noise, because you’re just not going to absorb it. If you don’t absorb it, you’re going to make mistakes. You’re not going to realize you’re making mistakes like this guy obviously did.

Probably watched about 80% of your videos too.

Well, if you’ve been following me for years, I don’t see how that’s possible, just because there’s like over 3,000 videos. I’ve been doing this, been making videos 15, 18, 16 years, whatever it is.

So before you, I’ve done everything wrong, I’m at the point now where I’m no where perfect but I can definitely identify and see issues  and put a stop to them before it comes to a problem… Sometimes.

So I’ve been casually dating a girl for the last year. Neither of us are ready for commitment as we are both out of failed marriages. We didn’t seek each other out, it kinda just happened because we were so alike. As much as we tried to keep it simple we became extremely close and best friends besides fuck buddies, and as a single mom with no dad in the picture, I also became very close to her kids. So about the nine month mark, I noticed attraction fading. So I backed away to match her energy, and while it helped a little, I think I was too late.

Yeah I would say, because at that point, by the time you really realize that her interest is slipping, you’ve gotten away from the book and just kind of being cold, indifferent and a little more distant. It’s not necessarily going to help it because again, this is not a Tinder date you’ve been going out with for a couple of weeks that you made some mistakes, or this is something you spent off and on the whole last year with kind of dating, being a stepdad to her kids.

Again, if you read the book a bunch and you were just driving around your car listening to it, you weren’t really taking it all in, you weren’t really learning it. Then like most guys, they’re getting laid, “I don’t need to read this 10 to 15 times,” and they just don’t go back to it. So when you need the relationship wisdom again, because you’re just focused on kind of a booty call and a fuck buddy, there’s just lots of little things, little nuances that you miss.

Well, she called it quits with me after we got back from a cruise. Her only reason was she should have more feelings after a year.

In other words, she wasn’t in love with him. Her interest went up and over time, it’s just continued to backslide. That’s what he was noticing towards the end, that her interest was dropping. When you know the book backwards and forwards, you can go through the chapter, It’s All In The Numbers, and look at her actions and see what she’s doing. Then you can tell what her interest is, but it looks like all he did was just kind of back off a little bit, but by that point, whatever he was doing that was unattractive, the damage was done.

Um, OK? Mind you, we never fought and always had great dates with and without kids. While I knew attraction was fading, I didn’t expect to be totally cut.

Well yeah, pretty much every guy is like, “I didn’t see it coming. I didn’t think it was that bad.” Bottom line is, what women care about is how they feel about you, and she didn’t feel the same. She realized after a whole year of dating you that she should be more into you than she was. So that tells me she never got to the point where she’s head over heels in love with you. I think it just kind of started out as a booty call, and it kind of fell into it, it was easy. Once he felt comfortable, then he kind of just went back to being the way he was when he was married to the previous woman. He even alludes to that in his email.

So it’s nice that you read the book 15 times, but again, if you’re listening to it as background noise and you never really go back through it when you’re dating, most guys that do well read it a bunch, they’re applying it and they get better. Then when they meet a girl they really like about every six months, they’ll go back through the book. It just looks like he did what a lot of guys do. If they find my work, they read the book a bunch, they start getting laid a bunch and they’re like, “Oh, I’ve mastered this. I’m a Jedi master with the ladies. Now I don’t need to go through this anymore.” Then they just stop paying attention to it. Then slowly over time, they just kind of backslide.

I simply responded with, “Wow, OK.” So I cut all communication. She continued to text me every single day afterwards but I just ignored her. After seven days of this, I finally respond. She apologized about how it went down…

Keep in mind, they dated a whole year. She basically texted him, that’s what it looks like. So you spent a year with somebody, you’re a stepdad to her kids, and then she’s like, “Hey, it’s not working for me. I’m not feeling it.” Shows how low her interest and her respect for this guy is. What women care about is how they feel about you. Doesn’t matter what a great guy you are or how awesome of a stepdad you are. What matters is how they feel, and if you ignore that, you ignore it at your own peril.

…And was really sorry, she said she still has strong feelings and she misses how we used to talk. She threw out, “Let’s be friends,” and my dumb-ass knowing what to do still said yes.

So the fact that you’re caving, something like that just shows me that over the past year, you just kind of got squishy and soft. You probably turned her into the man in the relationship and you started letting her lead things, unlike what you were doing initially because again, you got complacent, you got lazy, you weren’t really disciplined, and you just kind of reverted back to the way you were. Therefore, her interest, her attraction and her respect started declining, and you didn’t really realize it until she had one foot out the door already.

Well, I went out with her once on a boat with another couple and her brother as “friends” and afterwards we kissed goodbye.

Again, the fact that you agree to be friends and you go out and do friendship style dates just shows how squishy and soft you have become, because no self-respecting man that understands the book is going to agree to that. He’s going to be like, “No.”

So I could just tell right away how you responded. You didn’t really know the material. That’s what happens when you listen to the book kind of like background noise to your everyday life, whether you’re in the gym or you’re walking around the house listening to your speaker system, you’re just not really focus in the words. You’re kind of zoning in and out.

So you get little bits and pieces, but you don’t really know the material to where you can master it and you don’t pick up the nuances. So as her interest slips, you just think everything is good because you’re still getting laid, because that’s what you’re focused on typically, like most guys. Then all of a sudden, you get dumped and you don’t see it coming.

She said we shouldn’t do anything else because we are friends.

So that sounds like he probably tried to make a move physically and she shot him down. He backed off and acquiesced.

Well that made me wake the fuck up. I told her the following week I have to go away for awhile because just friends doesn’t work for me. She flipped out and said no, she has to have me in her life as her kids, family and friends all love me and she can’t picture that.

So this is the power of no-contact, is that she got to see what life was like with him not in it anymore. She says, “How about blue balls and friendship?” And initially he’s like, “Yeah, that sounds great. I’ll take some of that.” So he starts hanging out with her, he goes out on a couple’s kind of date, but he’s going out with just his friends, and he probably tried to make a move, and she shot that down, he walked away from it and he was like, “What the fuck am I doing?” That just shows you how far he had backslid, and he didn’t even realize he backslid that far.

Again, what’s happened is he’s focused on how much he likes her, and he’s not really paying attention to how much she likes him. He just assumed everything was good, like most guys do, “Hey, if she’s with me, she must love me.”

I asked, “Well then, what’s wrong with friends with benefits?” Then the truth came out. She said that’s what she wants, but she didn’t think I can handle that because she thought I wanted a committed relationship because we started spending more and more time together. I never said that, but looking back, maybe I put out that vibe?

Well, based on what her words are, she’s basically saying that she felt that you were more serious about her than she was about you. So to her, it was just kind of a nice, steady booty call, but to you, you were progressing towards a serious relationship and were acting from that place. Again, that just tells me you just had no sensory acuity, no self-awareness. You just weren’t paying attention. You were on autopilot, but again, he seems to realize that as you’ll see later in the email.

I was married for 13 years, so I really only know husband mode.

So again, 13 years with one woman, gets in the middle of a divorce, meets this girl, starts hanging out with her, and after a few months he goes right back to sleep and probably behaved the same way with her that he did with his ex-wife, which is why she probably lost interest and didn’t want to be with him anymore.

Anyways, we talked. I said, “Honestly all I want right now is to hang out, have fun and hook up as each of us heals ourselves.” Well she was seriously overjoyed with that statement, so now it’s back on.

So remember, as it says in the book, you’ll never own a woman’s heart unless she pushes you too far and knows that you’ll walk and never look back. So that’s what she got to experience. She got to a point where she didn’t really respect him. He wasn’t really leading and being the man in the relationship anymore. He was more focused on bonding and connecting and basically acting like a chick. So it ruined the sexual polarity, turned her off, and he was probably soft and squishy over a number of things, and he just let her kind of push him around. So she dumped him, thinking that her feelings weren’t going to return, and then he actually had the balls to walk away after initially agreeing to be friends only.

Now what the fuck do I do? Just play it normal by the book?

Well, you need to get back to it and take it seriously. Don’t be driving in your car listening to it in the background. Take it seriously. Sit in a room in your house, your apartment, your flat, wherever you live, by yourself. Listen to the audio-book, put it on two-speed and then follow along in a digital or physical copy. That way, you force your brain, your eyes and your ears to only focus on the material and get it into your brain, because what happened is yeah you listen to it 15 times, supposedly, but again, it was background noise. You weren’t really completely 100% focused. It’s kind of like just thumbing through the book and cherry-picking basically when you’re doing that,

Her attraction did fade, but she’s obviously still interested. So do I just stay the course of the book as if she is a new relationship or should I be doing something special?

Again, if you read the book 15 times, these are basic questions you should not be asking me. This just shows you don’t understand the material. You don’t know the nuances because again, the book was background noise to what was going on in your life. That’s why you didn’t retain it. You didn’t really focus on learning it and doing what you needed to do.

She’s cool as fuck and we are scary similar, so it’s always no effort when we go out. I don’t really want to lose her.

So you see what he’s focused on? Yeah, I think what happened is you just kind of went to sleep, became the woman in the relationship, made her the man, ruined the sexual polarity, and probably on a number of occasions, she tried pushing you around and testing you, and you didn’t realize you were being tested because again, you didn’t really pay much attention when you were listening to the book because you were driving and doing other things. So you just completely missed the nuance in the book and you didn’t realize you were being tested, you were flailing, and she was losing respect for you because you’re being soft and squishy. As you said, you just kind of only know husband mode. So you basically kind of behaved like a roommate would behave.

Oh, I should also throw in this little tidbit: She’s 30 and I’m 48. I am in good shape and I am often told I look a lot younger, thanks to you sir!

Thanks bud and you are awesome, wish I knew this shit in my 20’s!

Bob

Well, you know what? I wish I knew this in my 20s as well because I missed out on a lot of good opportunities, but I wouldn’t be sitting here teaching this to you fine people if I hadn’t gone through all of that.

The bottom line is, what you do to get her is what you do to keep her, and by going back through the book, you’ll start to figure out what you’re doing wrong. It’s pretty obvious you became soft, squishy and more focused on the relationship. She could kind of push you around. So she lost respect for you and she lost attraction. When she would test you, you would flail and fail, and you didn’t realize that you were failing. The only evidence was that she became less and less interested and backed away, and all you basically did was become more of a cold fish, but by that point, the damage was kind of done. So she probably didn’t think her feelings were going to go anywhere, and initially, you acquiesce to being friends only, which initially is going to cause her lose respect for you even more.

The good news is, you realized what you were doing, told her, “No way,” walked away and then she came back. So now you’re hanging out, having fun and hooking up. You gotta let her come to you. She should be doing most of the calling, texting and pursuing, and you should just be setting dates in the evening that can lead to sex at your place or her place. So again, by going back through the book, taking it seriously, listening to the book while you’re watching the words being spoken is the best way to kind of pick up on where you went wrong.

So the Members Only video, we’re doing an update today, and the guy who said he read his girlfriend’s diary and he didn’t like what he found, he listened to what I said, and he went back through the book. When he went back through the book, he realized he just completely got away from it. He thought he was doing fine, but when he read her diary, he kind of realized her attraction and respect had plummeted. That’s what she was talking about in her diary. At first, he got upset at it and wanted to point the finger at her, but in reality, after he went back through the book, he realized how completely far away he got from that book. The Members Only video, if you’re paying member is, Update: I Read Her Diary & Didn’t Like What I Found. That’ll be a good one. That’ll go along with this free video from today.

If you aren’t already a premium member and you’d like to check out that video, in the video description of the video, there are links to join on YouTube, Spotify or our website UnderstandingRelationships.com. Just click the “plans” tab and you get there. With the website, you can do a 7-day free trial and check out what content you get for your money. If you choose an annual plan, you get a 25% discount at the end of the 7-day free trial.

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