What it means and what you should do if your girlfriend rubs her male orbiter in your face.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a viewer whose long-term girlfriend has a male orbiter who obviously is still romantically interested in her. They go out in the evenings occasionally to drink wine and hang out together. She threatens to end the relationship and calls him insecure when he communicates he doesn’t like her hanging out with him or rubbing him in his face.
She says that he will be very unhappy if she dumps him like all her previous ex-boyfriends. He asks if he’s being unreasonable or if he should put his foot down. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.
When you’re in a long-term relationship, the number one most important thing to men in a relationship is loyalty. The number one most important thing that women find attractive in men is confidence. And us guys, we all want to know that our girls are loyal. Especially if we’re going to be involved and have children with her, we want to make sure she’s going to be loyal to us and not wondering if she’s out sleeping with somebody like this, a male orbiter or some guy you don’t even know about.
And so, what things do you look for, what signs do you look for? Because part of dating, especially if you’re one of those guys that wants to get married and have a family, you’ve got to make sure in the vetting process that you vet your girl to the best of your ability. Because you could vet her to the best of your ability, and she still may cheat on you if she’s a disloyal person. I mean, these things are going to happen, nobody’s perfect. You’re not going to get 100% confirmation, but you can be relatively assured, especially from her behavior.
In my book, 3% Man, I discuss this in the chapter, “It’s All in the Numbers.” Because there are certain things that women do when they’re in love. There are certain things they do when their interest, their attraction to you is a nine or a ten. And there are things that they don’t do when their interest is a six or seven that they do when it’s a nine or a ten. And so, based upon their actions and the things they’re saying to you, you can get an accurate reflection of how deeply in love and how much she cares for you, so you can always tell where you stand without ever having to ask. It comes out in the words and the things she says.
Women do this naturally, and it doesn’t matter where on the planet they are or what their cultural background or their religious background is. They all say the same things. I’ve got clients literally on every continent, every country that follow me and have learned from me. I see it in their emails, I listen to it in the phone sessions with them. And it’s amazing to me that women all over the world say the same things and they do the same things when they feel a certain level of attraction, or lack thereof.
Is it a red flag if my long-term girlfriend retains contact and occasionally goes out for drink with her male friend?
Well, women who are very loyal, and family oriented, and came from a good family are not going to go out with a guy that’s single, or a guy that they used to date one-on-one, and have drinks in the evening or go to dinner together without their boyfriend, their significant other, or several mutual friends there. They just simply don’t do it, for several reasons.
Number one, it looks bad. What if your girlfriend or your wife is out with some guy and your best friend sees her? She’s like, “I saw her, and she was hanging out with some dude, and they seemed to really be into their conversation.” Maybe they were holding hands, or maybe she was touching him and she seemed really close to him. Those are not the kind of phone calls that you want to get from your friends. And so, women that are loyal and honest would never want to do that. They won’t even want to insinuate that anything is going on, because they wouldn’t want to lose their man.
And the other thing that you’ve got to keep in mind is how men are. Any dude that’s had a girl or has been on dates with girls has had other guys come up and start hitting on your girl when you’re there. It’s going to happen, especially when they’ve been drinking. And us guys know that if a woman is out, and say it’s your girl, and she’s hot and she’s beautiful, she’s going to get attention from other men. And if she’s going out with a guy she used to date and hang out with them one-on-one, us guys know that there is a pretty good chance, almost 100% chance, maybe 99% chance that dude is not going to respect the fact that she’s in a relationship. He doesn’t care. He wants to plow her strawberry fields. That’s the bottom line.
And so a lady, a woman who’s loyal, monogamous and doesn’t want her man to think anything unusual is going on, doesn’t even want anything to be insinuated. She’s just not going to put herself in those situations, because she knows how guys are, and she doesn’t want anything that’s going to look bad to her, or her family, or her reputation. Ladies just don’t do these things. Chicks that belong to the streets do these things.
It’s the same thing with guys. If you’re in a relationship, you’re not going to go out with the hot secretary who’s crushing on you and and “have drinks,” and go clubbing with her while your wife is taking care of your kids, or your girlfriend’s home waiting for you to come home. You’re just not going to do those things, because you don’t want her to think that you’re disloyal. You want to treat her the same way you would want her to treat you. That’s what good, honest people do. Liars and cheaters don’t care. They do it anyway, and they make excuses for it.
A little background about this guy, (I can tell you only what she told me about him, under the condition that she’s being honest, of course):
So, we’re assuming that she’s being honest. But more than likely, she’s probably left out some details, just because she doesn’t want it to look bad. If they spent that much time together and they did kiss at one point… it was just the one time?
– They met thanks to some stupid Instagram discussion and continued to text but remained only friends after they met each other, because he is very needy, tends to lock girls down to commitment, etc.
So, he was needy and clingy. Obviously, he wanted her, wanted to date her, and she was not giving it up to him, we assume, because he was too much of a beta male. But at the end of the day, the beta male is going to keep trying. He doesn’t respect the fact that she’s in a relationship or as a boyfriend.
He doesn’t care, because he’s seen too many movies, and the movies convinced him that if it’s meant to be, it’ll be. Maybe they’re soulmates. They’re supposed to live happily ever after, especially if her boyfriend or husband doesn’t treat her the way he thinks she should be treated. He wants to show her what a good dude he is, so she leaves the bad relationship and lives happily ever after in relationship bliss. That’s what the movies show us.
– They spent a lot of time together before, (when they were both single), only the two of them. She went to his place, he went to her place. They also went to parties together, and they really enjoy drinking wine together as they’re both wine lovers.
– They kissed at a party which happened someplace for New Year Eve, (not sure what year was that, I didn’t ask).
So, they’ve kissed. There’s obviously romantic interest, at least on his part, and obviously on her part. Because, as we get a little further into this, you can tell she cares about this guy on some level. It’s not just some friend. Her actions and her words give away that he’s more than just a friend.
I don’t know how they communicate, since I don’t really see her texting or calling him while we spend time together. But I must admit that I snapped when she started mentioning him and how she wonders what’s going on with her friend, since she didn’t hear from him for a while. So, she decided to call him. After a while, she told me that she is going to meet him and here is what hurt me:
Here’s the other thing to keep in mind, and I discussed this in my book, when women start telling you about guys – “Oh, he’s just a friend, you don’t have to worry about him,” and she talks about other dudes, “Oh, I like the way he was dressed,” or “He looked so handsome. He was wearing this really nice shirt” – when she’s saying things like that, that’s basically her way of saying, “Hey, here’s your replacement. If you don’t get your act together, this is the guy who’s going to replace you.” That’s like their little warning.
That’s how they tell you and reveal, “Hey, there’s another guy potentially, waiting in the wings if you don’t get your act together. I may just monkey branch to him.” That’s what she’s telling you. Because if it just happened, “Oh, it just happened. He ended up inside me,” she could be like, “Hey, well, I did tell him about this other guy, and he didn’t change his behavior.” Then she can absolve herself from any personal responsibility for it, “It just happened. He just slipped and his penis ended up inside of me. Oops!”
– She did this, despite me being obviously unimpressed with her initiating contact with him.
So, in her mind, she didn’t see anything wrong with it. She knew you didn’t like it, but she did it anyway. So, what does that tell me? She doesn’t respect you. Maybe she was hoping you would stand up to her. Or maybe she really is a ratchet and belongs to the streets. We don’t know enough yet.
– They went out during the night and they went to wine bar.
If it’s just platonic, why not just go to lunch and have some wine? Why does it have to be in the evening, like a date? And you could simply say, “How would you like it if I went out with a girl I used to sleep with, and just had some wine with her in the evening, and went clubbing with her? Would you like that? Especially when you know this girl wants to get back together with me, would you like that?” Obviously, she wouldn’t like that at all. But she wants a double standard, and she wants him to put up with it.
– She keeps talking about him, and she even told me how he gave her a compliment about her clothes, business achievements and new hair color.
Feminine energy grows through praise, so she likes the fact that he’s praising her. It could also be a subtle hint that she’s telling you, you don’t praise her enough. But at the end of the day, this is a dude that obviously wants to get in her pants that’s praising her, and she likes it. And so, she’s getting attention and validation from a man who is not her boyfriend, who is not her lover, but obviously wants to be her lover. And the fact that she’s going and hanging out with him in the evenings and expects you just to sit there and take it like, “Sure, this is fine,” that just shows a lack of respect on her part towards you.
When I complain about her seeing and contacting him, she accuses me of being insecure and needy and even gave me a subtle ultimatum that I am going to miss her if I end up alone, just like all her exes.
That’s when you’ve got to say, “Honey, I love you, but let me explain something to you, how us guys work. The number one most important thing to us men in a relationship is loyalty. And if we’re going to stay together, if you’re going to have the privilege of me continuing to agree to be your boyfriend, I expect loyalty. You talk about going out and hanging out with a guy that you used to date, and a guy who obviously is still romantically interested in you, and quite frankly, on some level, you have some kind of interest in him, because you talk about him in such glowing terms, as somebody that you like and admire. And so, when you go out in the evening, I mean, what would you think if you’re out in the evening having wine with this guy, and laughing and giggling, and then my parents walk in the restaurant?”
“And we supposedly live together, and we have this strong relationship, and then my parents, or my sister, or my brother, or my best friend see you at a table being very flirtatious, and playing with your hair, and laughing, and touching his arm, almost like it’s a date, and I’m nowhere to be found. How would that look? My parents would look at you differently. My brother would look at you differently. My sisters would look at you differently. My coworkers, my friends would look at you differently. And they would look at me and think I’m some kind of chump or an idiot that’s got a disloyal girlfriend.”
“A loyal girlfriend is never going to put herself in that situation. And even if she’s a trustworthy girl, she’s just not going to do it, because men don’t care. Most men don’t care. If they want to plow the strawberry fields, they’re going to do it. They don’t care. Being married or having a boyfriend, they don’t care. Having kids, they don’t care. They just want to get to the promised land. And so, if a woman is putting herself in a situation, a date-like romantic situation like this, on some level, she’s open to it progressing further. It doesn’t matter what you say, the bottom line is you’re putting yourself in that position.”
“I would not be going to dinner in the evening with a cute single girl that likes me and expect you to just be totally cool with that if we’re in an exclusive, monogamous relationship. That’s just a fact of life. And so, what this is telling me is that we have a value conflict here. I would never do this. You don’t see a problem with it. And if you don’t see a problem with it, then I question your ability to be loyal long term. And if you’re incapable of being loyal long term, then you don’t qualify to be my girlfriend or my future wife, ever. It’s out of the question.”
“Your behavior is jeopardizing the future of the relationship. So, if there’s ever a time when you and I are not together, and you continue this behavior, it’s because you messed it up. So, you’re going to be the one home crying because you lost a good, loyal man. If your loyalty is in question and you’re not capable of it, that’s it. There’s no second chances for that. You cheat once, you’ll do it again.”
“And I don’t appreciate you rubbing this guy in my face and talking about him in a gushing way all the time. I’m not going to come home and talk about other women like that to your face and expect you to sit there and like it. So, why is it you think it’s okay for you to treat me this way? That shows that you don’t value me, you don’t love me, you don’t respect me, you don’t respect our relationship. And it calls into question your ability to be loyal. And if you’re not capable of being loyal, then we have a value conflict and we don’t belong together. And if you were ever disloyal to me, it would be the end of it. And I’ll be sad that it’s over, but at the end of the day, I’m going to be glad that I found out before we got too far down the road, we got married, we had kids or a family together. Because I don’t want to be with some chick and have to wonder if half of the kids are even mine or not.”
“And women who behave this way, that’s the way they are. My life’s a drama free zone, and I don’t want to deal with it. And if you want to stay with me and you want to stay my girlfriend, you’re never going to put me in a position where you’re going out and having romantic dinners or wine tastings with men that want to get in your pants. You’re never going to do that again. And if you think it’s okay, it’s not okay. I’m telling you it’s not okay. I’m not going to be your boyfriend anymore if you want to continue this behavior. It’s as simple as that.”
So, in a roundabout way, that’s how I would phrase it with her. Loyalty is the number one most important thing to us guys, and this one is just basically going, “Hey, here’s your loyalty, [shoots a bird]. This is what I think of our relationship.” But maybe you’ve displayed weakness, and she thinks you’re a chump, and she’s testing your strength to see if you’ll let her get away with it, and see if you’ll stand up to her. Because I promise you, if you stand up to her, she will respect you more.
It doesn’t mean you get angry and pissed off, and you’re screaming and yelling at each other. You don’t want it to escalate to that point, but you’ve got to let her know, matter of factly, where you’re coming from. What she’s doing is jeopardizing your willingness to remain her boyfriend. She’s literally jeopardizing your relationship ending forever. You don’t give women like this a second chance. If they cheat, they’re done. You want loyalty and monogamy. You don’t hang out with a cheater. Cheating women, those are just chicks that you hook up with, friends with benefits.
What really confuses me is that she keeps doing all the things from your book which indicate high level of interest but still acts like this, which definitely is not indicative of high level of interest.
What that’s indicative of is disloyalty, the fact that she may belong to the streets, and she’s not capable or worthy of your love and commitment long term. This is part of the vetting process. “Can I trust this girl? Is she a ride or die, or is she just looking to monkey branch to the next guy, or cheat and get away with it and stay in the relationship? Because some women are like that. So, you’ve got to know what you’re dealing with, and this is not a good sign. It’s not a good sign at all.
She is of the opinion that their history is meaningless…
No, it’s not. “Current events form future trends,” as Gerald Celente says. And at the end of the day, any guy that would be okay with a woman going and hanging out one-on-one in the evening, having drinks and dinner with a guy that she used to date and sleep with, that’s not going to be cool. That’s just not acceptable. And so, that is not meaningless.
And the fact that she keeps mentioning him and bringing him up communicates that she cares for this guy on some level more than just a friendship. And so, it’s like, why would I want to stay in a relationship with a girlfriend that’s telling me how much she likes some other man? “Why am I committed to you, again? What are you bringing to the table for me? What do I get out of staying committed to you when you behave disloyal, like this?”
…and that there was never anything romantic between them.
They kissed, they hung out a lot, she likes him. She’s open to the possibility of romance, and that’s why she keeps hanging out with him. It doesn’t matter what she says. If she values loyalty and doesn’t want to do anything to jeopardize your relationship, she ain’t going to do this. And if she does hang out with the guy, you’re going to be there or her girlfriends are going to be there that you know. She just won’t do it. She won’t put herself in a position where she’s alone with this guy. Ladies, don’t behave this way. Wives don’t behave this way, just chicks that belong to the streets do. Any girl that tries to tell you differently is gaslighting you, or is an idiot, or just incredibly naive.
She does have a couple of male acquaintances, but I must admit that she has almost no contact with them since she spends most of her time with me.
Could you please share your opinion on this? I really don’t like to sleep with my eyes open. Should I call her out and say that, out of respect for me, she should minimize or cease contact with this guy?
Yes, but if she’s going to spend time with him, she shouldn’t be there one-on-one. She should want you to meet this guy if he’s “just a friend,” to know what a good dude he is, right? But if she doesn’t introduce you to him, doesn’t want you around when she’s with this guy, that’s pretty much a deal breaker right there. She wants to spend time with a man who is not her boyfriend, and she doesn’t want her boyfriend to to be around this guy? I don’t think so. That’s not how this works. You want my commitment to you and only you, then that’s just out of the question. Because that’s like saying, “Hey, I want a potential open relationship.”
Or should I let things go, and if I notice that they are spending more time together, just dump her?
I would have the conversation that I just went through earlier in the video. That’s a conversation you must have with her. You can’t just let this slide. This is not something you just sweep under the rug and hope it goes away.
I am still with her because there are a lot of things that I really like about her, and sometimes I think that maybe I’m overreacting and may chase her out of liking me due to this behavior. Am I the one being needy here, or am I just standing up for myself and not letting myself being jerked around?
Well, it’s like you have a major question mark with your girlfriend right now on whether or not she’s capable of loyalty. I’m sure the guys in the comments will be like, “Dump her, just blow her off, ditch her, send her back to the streets.” But at the end of the day, if she loves you, if she is submissive and she’s loyal, she will understand your point of view and where you’re coming from. She will respect it, and she’ll never do it again. And if she says she won’t do it again, and then she does do it again, or she wants to continue the same behavior, then that just tells me she wants to keep it open to hanging out with him.
And who knows, maybe there’ll be another guy that’ll come along. “Oh, he’s just a friend from work. He’s got a girlfriend. There’s nothing there. We’re just friends. We just hang out and go to dinner and drinks all the time. No hanky panky is happening.” If a woman in a relationship, is hanging out one on one with a dude who single, or even if the guy is married, he’s not there because he wants to play patty cake with her. He’s there because he wants to play hide the salami with your girl. Deep down, that’s what he’s hoping for.
And some women are completely naive. We had this conversation. We did a bunch of podcasts with Jade, because that was an issue with her and it was causing friction in her relationship. And she was just like, “Oh, I didn’t think it was a big deal. We’re just friends.” She’s like, “I’m not going to cheat on my boyfriend.” But it doesn’t matter. The guy she was hanging out with wants to get in her pants. That’s why, us guys know how other dudes are. And so, it’s naive and it’s inappropriate, and a lady is not going to do that. A tramp, she’s going to do that. And if you’ve got a tramp, then you can send her on down the road, because she definitely belongs to the streets.
And here’s another interesting thing about liars and cheaters. Remember, no one will ever do or say anything to you that isn’t a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves in a moment. Liars and cheaters and devious people are always accusing you of doing things you shouldn’t have been doing.
Also note that whenever she sees any woman liking my Linkedin posts, she immediately starts asking about her background, who is she, etc.
Thank you in advance, with warmest regards,
Sounds like a little bit of projection there. But obviously she doesn’t like it. And you can use that. You can say, “You get upset when a random girl that you don’t know likes my LinkedIn posts. And so, if you’re getting upset at that, but you want me to be cool with you going out on dates with some guy…” “It’s not a date!” It’s like, “It’s a date. If you’re going out in the evening and having wine and dinner with a man who’s not your boyfriend, you’re on a date. The only difference is you haven’t slept with him, at least to my knowledge.”
Like I said, there’s a big question mark here, so you need to have an unpleasant, but necessary, conversation with your girlfriend. Maybe ideally right after you have sex the next time. That would be the best time to have this conversation. But you need to let her know how things are and they’re going to be if she wants to keep you as her boyfriend, because that kind of behavior, it’s not appropriate.
And the fact that she’s rubbing it in your face like that and expecting you just to put up with it, it’s like she’s testing to see whether or not your balls have dropped. And that’s why you just say, “It’s not appropriate. It’s not going to work. If you keep doing it, we’re just not going to be together anymore. So, if you want to be single again, hey, that’s the quickest way to get there.”
So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly.
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