The Art of Seduction. Her Place or Yours?

Mastering the art of seduction and whose place should you go to.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who met a girl through a dating app. They had several dates and went to his place and hers. He was a little dogmatic about going back to his place and trying to escalate things physically. They kissed and fooled around, but she wouldn’t let him go all the way. She started to pull away, got sick and couldn’t make a date. Then she suddenly got better and wanted to see him on the day they originally discussed, but he had made plans with his friends by then.

She seemed to get a little mad and butt-hurt and fearful he was seeing other women. He wonders if she is a little structured and possibly insecure. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

This particular email is from a guy who met a girl through a dating app. They had several dates and the first few dates they went to his place. Some of them he went to hers. So each time he tried to escalate things. As soon as the hands started going up underneath the clothes and he started undressing her, she would back off, pull her dress down.

So he had several dates, then what she told him the last time they were together, she’s like, “Oh, you’ll get further next time,” so it looks like she’s a little bit structured, maybe a little more modest, a little more conservative. It’s also possible he was making mistakes. We just don’t know. There are signs that the girl is a little bit structured and following rules and stuff, so he was a little dogmatic and kind of stuck on wanting her to come to him to his place, because for the next date, this was after she had told me he’d get further the next time before he left and said, “Hey, you’ll get further next time.” What happened was when he tried to make her come to his place, she had like a whole elaborate date kind of planned out that she wanted to do with him at her place. So he was kind of trying to control things a little bit, and then she got sick. So he made plans to go hang out with his friends. Then after he made plans to hang out with his friends, she gets back in touch and says, “Hey, I’m actually all better. Let’s still get together Saturday night.” or whatever it was. By then he’s like, “Oh, I already made plans,” so she assumes it’s with another girl and kind of gets mad and a little butt-hurt. Then she started kind of pulling away, and you can tell she’s a little afraid that he’s dating other women. So he’s wondering, “She looks a little structured, a little insecure,” because she seemed to get butt-hurt and a little bent out of shape that he wasn’t available when all of a sudden she got better or got over her cold or whatever it was that she had. So now he’s kind of like in no contact. He’s like, “What do I do now?” Because she got a little squirrely there at the end.

I say this all the time. You want a girl who’s easygoing, easy to get along with, not somebody who’s a pain in the ass, not somebody who gets mad and punishes you because you’re roughed up her ego a little bit. So insecure girls, structured girls, they show these signs early on in dating, and it’s not going to be just with sleeping with them. There’s usually all kinds of things, rules and routines that they expect you to follow, like how your spices are organized in the cupboard, which clothes go in which drawers. They’re very structured, they got everything, has a bunch of rules. Again, that’s not easy going, easy to get along with. That’s somebody that’s like, “Hey! Here, I got these little boxes. I want you to fit in these little boxes and do what I say, or else I’m going to be mad and upset with you.” Again, you’re looking for easy going, easy get along with, because life is tough enough. Relationships are tough enough without a girl. It’s very structured and got all these hoops that she wants you to jump through.

So he sends his email in. Obviously, he wants me to kind of critique his approach to see if there’s anything he could have or should have done differently. Again, the reason why I go through these is assuming you’ve been through the book 10 to 15 times, but here’s a special case. The guy seems to be doing a pretty good job of applying these things, but the girl is a little hesitant and a little resistant to go along with what it is that he wants. On top of that, they live an hour apart. When I was younger, it was fun, planes, trains and automobiles, but being older now, if the girl is not 10, 15 minutes away, I don’t want to mess with that. I’m not going to drive an hour to see somebody. There’s enough fish in the sea. There’s enough girls in your town and your community that you can find somebody ideally in your area. So let’s go through his email.

Viewer Email:

Hi Corey,

Long time fan of your work. Was hoping to get your feedback on a recent dating experience:

Met this Asian lady on online dating. We hit it off and I invited her for a first date.

First date: We met halfway between our two locations (We are about an hour apart by car) for drinks and appetizers and ended up talking and flirting for two hours. I let her do 80-90% of the talking, but she also had a lot of questions about me.

So if she’s asking questions about you, that’s a good sign that she’s interested. Because if they don’t ask, usually it means they don’t care, they don’t really want to know. They appreciate the free meal.

Afterwards, I took her for an evening walk in the city, where she kept bumping into me and wanting to hold hands with me. The walk ended at a rooftop bar with a nice ambience and we sat underneath the stars talking. She couldn’t keep her hands off me, and snuggled up to me, where I went for the kiss. We kissed passionately. After that, I walked her back to her car, where we made out some more.

I waited 3-4 days after the date to reach out. No contact from her. I noticed after I reached out, she had deleted our match on the dating profile.

If she didn’t hear from you for three or four days, she wouldn’t have deleted you from the match. Probably the reason why she deleted your profile is she just assumed she was never going to hear from you again and got mad and butt-hurt, and that’s why she deleted the match, because he actually brings it up to her the next time they see each other or they talk. He’s like, “Why did you delete the match?”

Sometimes when you encounter women that are basically hookers that are on there, that’s one of the things they do right after you first start talking, because when they tell you that all they’re really looking for is for you to pay them to hang out and have sex with you, guys will want to complain and say, “Hey, this is a hooker on a dating app. You should delete her profile,” so it’s happened to them enough to know that once phone numbers are exchanged, that’s what the hookers typically do, they delete the match so you can’t torpedo their dating profile that they use to get other Johns. Plus, you can only create so many fake accounts on those apps before they figure out it’s the same person using same credit cards or different profiles, then you just get blocked permanently and then that source of leads, that girl dries up.

When I asked her about it, she said she thought we didn’t need the app anymore since we can talk by phone. I suspected she just didn’t want me to see her going on there to check out other options, but didn’t say this. I let it drop since anyway we are just dating and none of my business at this point.

I think also because what we already know or I know because I already read this email, that it might be a sign of insecurity. She might have gotten mad or butt-hurt that she didn’t hear from you within a day or two, and that’s the real reason why she deleted the match, but she didn’t want to say that because it obviously makes her look insecure.

What she’s doing when not with me. Still it seemed a little strange. Nonetheless we made plans for our 2nd date.

Second date: I invited to a park near my house for a romantic picnic. She was enthusiastic and asked what to bring. I suggested just her sexy self and some homemade treat from her country for me to try her cooking. I prepared a picnic basket with lots of dishes, but it turned out she went all out and brought a full Asian meal with tons of food.

Well, that’s shows high interest, so that’s a good sign. She’s putting thought and effort into the date and she’s taking the time to cook food. Obviously she wants you to like her, so there’s definitely high interest on her part.

We sat on a blanket near the lake, chatted and flirted, where she kept touching me, which I slowly reciprocated.

The idea is, like I talked about in the book, you’re trying to go a little slightly slower than she is. The reason you do that is because it makes her more attracted to you, but also if she’s insecure and controlling, she’s going to start to get upset, get mad and angry, and that’ll come out earlier rather than later. That way, if you come across a really angry, insecure girl, you can figure it out within the first few dates, first few weeks versus figuring out six months later when she’s driving you nuts.

After the picnic, we took a walk through the woods where we got caught in a torrential downpour (I had luckily brought my umbrella just in case). Even so we got soaked, but when we got back to her car, we ended up making out passionately in the rain.

Pretty nice.

I invited her back to my place nearby to, “Dry off and warm up with some tea,” Despite making out some more, she turned this down and went back home. The next day she reached out by text to tell me how romantic it was to make out in the rain, which I used to set the next date.

So she’s clearly digging him, and now she’s starting to pursue him. Again, this is why you’re trying to go a little slower than her, but the fact that she’s telling you what a great date it was, you could have waited and then to ask her out. She’s now starting to pursue him, so it’s obviously her idea to get together. Also insecure girls will really move things along really fast and then tend to get pissed off when you don’t go along with their agenda. So you got to got to keep that in mind.

Third date: I invited her to my place to make dinner together the next weekend, to which she readily agreed. I prepared most stuff ahead of time, so she just had to help with some finishing touches. She brought desserts and drinks. After a candlelight meal, we danced together then made out on the couch, where I tried two steps forward and one step back. Ultimately I only got as far as hands under clothes, taking dress off part way, but every time I approached her bra (Even just barely grazing it), she pulled her dress back down to which I slowed down and focused on chatting and listening to music together until the next round of making out. Eventually she went home, no action. Usually my experience is dinner at my place leads to the indoor Olympics with most ladies, but maybe she wasn’t ready, or she’s structured (Or I didn’t do a good enough job).

I’d say probably at this point she definitely likes you, but she’s structured and she’s following a bunch of rules that she’s got. Plus she’s Asian, and Asian girls tend to be a little more stricter, dogmatic and structured.

Fourth date: She had come to my side of town twice, and although I wasn’t thrilled about going to her place without having had sex before (Seems a little submissive),
I suggested I come pick her up (Moving closer together as she’d be trusting me to ride in my car). We went for some Asian food and bubble drinks we had discussed in an earlier date, and then I took her to the riverfront/boardwalk and made out near the water. At some point, I suggested we go back to her place, which she agreed. While there, we again made out passionately and same thing as previous date. Although I did two steps forward, one step back, and we paused many times with her re-initiating the kissing, I still only got as far as hands under clothes, heavy petting, etc. and she pulled her dress back down when I grazed her bra gently. Finally, she sent me home with her homemade cooking etc., but again no action.

Definitely looks pretty structured.

She did mention something in passing about, “Next time you’ll get further.” Maybe five dates is her magic number?? Seems kind of structured.

Well definitely, but it could be that he’s making mistakes there. Like I said, it really looks structured because he’s been through this with other women, and and most of the time it’s working.

Fifth date: Didn’t happen. The day after 4th date, she reached out to me first. Since I was working, I got back to her a couple of hours later between meetings. She took a whole day (24 hours) to respond, but then sent me a long message with elaborate plans for 5th date including me going to her place, then taking her different places she had mapped out, her cooking for me, then going out for ice cream, etc. I waited until the next day to respond (Match and mirror) and said while I was flattered she spent a lot of time thinking about us spending time together, I had something else in mind, inviting her up to my place on the weekend.

Well, if a girl is going through that much trouble and has all these places she wants to take you to, then I would have gone and done that because it’s clear she told you that next time you get a little further, in her mind, if she wants to go and do this elaborate plan, cook for you and has all these places to take you to, that’s a cool idea. Plus you’re an hour away, so it’s a good way to see her part of town. I would have gone and done that, because if the girl is willing to do all those things for you, that’s kind of nice. In my opinion, that was kind of a mistake there, because she reached out to say she had all these sayings, but you’re like, “Nah, I don’t want to do that. Just come to my place.”

She again waited a day, and said while that sounds good, she is sick and doesn’t want to give me anything (Sounds like BS. I figured she wanted to, “Punish me” because I didn’t go along with her ideas).

It might be. It might be what she’s doing. Again, this is what a structured girl will do, or she could be following a woman who has learned my work and then is basically teaching women to use it on men, which in essence, teaches the women to act like dudes, which ruins the sexual polarity, but there’s a lot of women that do that and it just doesn’t dawn on them.

I waited a day and said sorry to hear she’s sick and hope it’s nothing serious, to get back to me when she feels better and we can make plans then. She said she would. The VERY NEXT day she sends me a message that she’s all better and can we still get together on Saturday. In the meantime, I had made plans with some friends, so I told her I had plans, but would still like to see her, how about Sunday? To which, she got butt-hurt. “Wow, you’re taken so quickly. Let’s just do it some other time.”

Yeah, it almost sounds like she’s talking to a woman who’s learned my stuff and is basically, word for word, telling the girls to act the same way. In other words, since you didn’t comply with her wishes, she’s doing the takeaway on you, which is just completely unnecessary. She’s trying to act like a dude, but probably the the female dating coach, I guess you would call it that, didn’t make the connection that she’s basically teaching women to act like structured pain in the ass men, which is just going to blow up in their faces.

I tried one more time. “Don’t be silly, just get your sexy self up here, etc.”  Her: “But you’ve got plans with other women this Saturday” (Jealousy)  So I responded “I said I had plans, didn’t say what kind, but if Sunday doesn’t work, sure we can just do it some other time. Have a good weekend.” She wished me a good weekend too.

I haven’t reached out in a week, and haven’t heard from her. If I don’t hear anything in another week (Which will be two weeks) maybe I’ll give it another try.

Yeah, I’d give it one more shot, but definitely she’s doing this stuff on purpose, and her saying she was sick might not have been true. She might have just been doing that because you roughed up her ego, but it’s just really strange from her responses. Those sound like responses right out of my book, so she learned that from somebody.

On the other hand, some of her behavior seems like red flags. (Jealousy, cancelling plans because I didn’t agree to what she wanted to do, etc.)

Curious about your thoughts. She seemed to have a high attraction, yet we never sealed the deal.

Again, she’s structured, definitely.

I figure she is very structured or I messed up subtly delaying it, or both. Am I doing the right thing with just backing off for two weeks?

Yeah, I’d wait two weeks and give it one more shot to see if you can get her out on a date, but she might be kind of pissy, cranky, grumpy and give you a hard time about it. Then if that’s the case that she’s not down, just say, “Well, if you change your mind, get in touch. It was really nice hanging out with you and meeting you. You’re a great kisser. Take care.”

Thanks for everything you do and sorry for sending a long email, but felt the details were important and maybe it will make a good case study.

Bob

It actually was a very good, detailed email, even though it was a little longer than I like. These are the kinds of things that are really helpful for other guys to see, so if they encounter the same behavior, they can go, “Ahh, OK.”

Again, this is the kind of stuff you just can’t put it all in a book because there’s a gazillion different scenarios, behaviors and things one will say, but it definitely looks like the girl he’s interacting with has been taught by somebody that knows my work, so she’s kind of acting like a dude. Plus she’s acting structured, which again, this is why you don’t typically date the structured women. Plus it looks like she’s really insecure, getting mad, upset and being difficult. That’s what we call passive aggressive behavior. Just purposely blowing things up just because you roughed up her ego and pissed her off. That’s not a good sign. Other than that, other than you not agreeing to go to her place for her elaborate date, I’d say your game is pretty tight. You did a good job. Two steps forward, one step back. It’s clear that she was stonewalling you on purpose, making you slow down and jump through her hoops because somebody probably taught her, “You make them wait, they’ll stick around longer.”

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