How to avoid becoming the white knight beta male who is too nice to women, puts them on a pedestal and turns them off romantically.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a viewer who is suffering from the white knight beta male complex. He recently met a gorgeous woman whose husband of seven years up and left her only a few months ago. They have been hanging out, having fun but not hooking up because he feels he needs to wait to seduce her so she can heal.
Even though her attraction for him is growing, he is not trying to seduce her because he thinks he needs to be extra nice to her, instead of being a fun romantic escape from what just happened to her. However, he’s worried that he is putting himself into friend-zone by his behavior and asks what he should do. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.
The topic of today’s newsletter, “The White Knight Beta Male,” I think there’s also another name for this guy. I’ve known a few women over the years, and they call him “Harry Honda.” That’s the nice guy that is kind of like one of the male orbiters that doesn’t have the confidence to date or really go for what he wants. And so, whenever women need something, they just call Harry Honda and he shows up with his tools and he fixes whatever needs to be fixed like a good little boy. Then he goes home by himself, and she invites the guy over that she’s actually hooking up with.
I’ve got an email from a guy who started dating a woman that was married for about seven years to her high school sweetheart. Well, he just up and left her a few months back, and so this guy here met her and he’s obviously very taken by her. They’ve been hanging out, having fun, but not hooking up because he’s trying to be Mr. White Knight, trying to be extra nice to her. Her attraction is growing, but he’s also starting to realize, “I think I putting myself into friend-zone by not going all the way with her.” His spidey sense is telling them that his Mr. Nice Guy approach, there’s something amiss, it’s a little off, and so he asks my opinion, so I’m going to be happy to give it to him.
You see this a lot. Guys meet a woman, or maybe they knew her for awhile, and she gets out of a relationship and then they start hanging out. I had plenty of experience doing these kinds of things when I was in my late teenage years and early 20s and I didn’t know any better. You think, “Hey, I’ll be the friend for a while and she’ll get to see how cool I am. Then once she’s healed, then I’ll ask her out for a date,” and then you wait and you wait. And the weeks and months go by and you’re hanging out and you’re thinking, “I’m going to get my chance. I’ve just got to give her a few more weeks or a few more months to heal.”
The next thing you know, you find out she’s hooking up and sleeping with somebody else and you’re thinking, “Damn, why did that happen?” Well, you’ll see from this email exactly how and why that happens, so you can avoid it. Because it sucks, and you don’t want to be that guy. You don’t want to be Harry Honda. Harry Honda’s not a good way to go. Harry Honda goes home by himself with his bad case of blue balls.
I’m 35, laser-focused on my mission and have been applying your principles for years with great success. THANKS!
I recently met a smart, gorgeous, super feminine woman (model, actress) whose high school sweetheart and husband of 7 years abruptly left her a few months ago.
No matter how hot the girl is, somewhere there’s a guy that’s tired of fucking her. That’s just reality. But his loss is your gain, potentially.
Obviously, she will need considerable time to heal as her emotions are quite raw at the moment.
True, but ideally what you want to do is you want to be the escape. As I talk about in “How To Be A 3% Man,” your job as a man in the courtship is to create an opportunity for sex to happen — to hang out, have fun and hook up. That’s it. There’s nothing about being a white knight, or a relationship, or being extra nice, or turning yourself into Harry Honda, or trying to become a doormat so you can fix her sprinkler system or whatever it happens to be. Don’t be that guy. And that’s the vibe I get. I get the vibe of Harry Honda here, who’s heading to being in friend-zone. Obviously, you’ll see he kind of feels like he’s heading that way himself, and he doesn’t like where that ends.
When we met we connected instantly and everything was just so effortless. She ticks every box on my list — one of those rare women you meet maybe twice or three times in a decade.
Well, you don’t really know. You haven’t gone all the way, and you just met her. You don’t have any “for unlawful carnal knowledge.” Remember the old Van Halen album from the 80s, for you Gen-X people.
We’ve been hanging out and having fun but obviously not hooking up as it’s WAY too soon.
Come on, man. Why? Think about it. She just got dumped by her high school sweetheart, the love of her life, so what do you think her state of mind is in? She’s probably not feeling really good, and it’s probably shocking to her. So, what would be great for somebody in that situation? For somebody to come along, because there’s lots of guys that are going to be nice to her, but a guy to come along to hang out and have fun and hook up with her and be an escape from what just happened. A guy that knows what he’s doing hanging out, having fun and hooking up. That’s going to put a smile on her face, hopefully, and help her escape from what happened in her life and cause her to also feel like, “Hey, it’s not so bad. There’s nothing wrong.”
Obviously, anybody’s going to feel like, “Well, maybe I’m not attractive anymore. Maybe there’s something wrong with me,” especially when you get rejected. That’s why it’s always better to be the dumper than in dumpee. And so, he’s thinking, “Well, because I really like this girl, I’m going to put her on a pedestal and be extra nice.”
I mean, this guy says he’s been applying my stuff with great results over the years, but you’re acting like, “Oh, I know this girl is going to be great relationship material down the road.” It’s like, you don’t know that. It doesn’t matter. It’s not your department. Your job is to hang out, have fun and hook up. Unless of course, I can understand if you’re ultra-religious, but I don’t think based on anything he shared in here he’s not seducing her because he’s religious and wants to wait until marriage, or whatever.
Again, this is the Mr. White Knight complex. It’s a bad way to go, dude. It’s not what I teach in my book. You claim you’ve been following my book with great success for years, but with this particular woman, because she’s a once, twice, maybe three times in a decade kind of woman, you’re like, “Oh, I’m going to turn into Harry Honda, and she’ll really like that.” She’ll really like a neutered man. That’ll really turn her on.
She says she still breaks down in tears every week or two.
So he’s like, “I’ve got to be her therapist. I’ve got to take care of her. I’m going to be her butler. Harry Honda to the rescue!”
How do I best approach this?
Follow the book. Stop being Mr. White Knight. Hang out, have fun and hook up, like the mug says in the Coach Corey Wayne store, if you’re so inclined to get one of these to remind yourself of the formula, because maybe you need to do that.
She is showing increasing signs of attraction each time we hang out and have fun, but she still has a lot of healing to do, so I don’t take things any further.
Dude, she’s dying to have somebody take things a little further. Her husband left her. What do you think you’re going to accomplish by by not seducing her? Like she’s going to go, “Oh wow, I’m in love with you. Let’s have a relationship.” You don’t even know if she’s relationship material. You don’t know her well enough. You’re making all of these assumptions. You put her on a pedestal, you’re projecting your fantasy of what you want onto her, and yet you don’t even know this woman.
You don’t even know if she’s any good in bed. You don’t know what she’s like on her worst day, or her best day, or what her normal, average days are like. Because you have a fantasy and you’re like, “Oh, I’ve got to treat this woman differently.” This is the problem, this is how you ruin attraction. You’re treating her different than any other dating prospect. And this is how you end up finding out that she’s been sleeping with some other guy.
“I just think of you as a friend, Mr. Harry Honda, but thanks for fixing my toilet, and changing the tires in my car, and putting a new battery in it, and mowing my lawn for me, and fixing my broken windows, and painting my house. It’s really nice of you to do that. You’re such a great friend. And I’m going to take you to lunch to show my thanks and appreciation. And you can meet my new boyfriend. He’s really wonderful. And your advice, all the time we spent together, it really helped me heal, so I really thank you for that. You’re such a great friend.” That’s your future, bro.
Do I risk ending up in friend-zone by hanging out, having fun and NOT hooking up?
I’ve intentionally made sure we don’t drink alcohol together yet, because I feel we may hook up and then that could send her into a spin emotionally.
Dude. You’re not there to be your therapist, you’re there to hang out, have fun and hook up, because you like her, she likes you. Be an escape from what just happened. Think about it, every time you’re with her, if she feels good, you give her a few orgasms, it’s a positive thing. She’s going to think very positively and very naughtily about you, which is what you want. But you keep doing what you’re doing, and you are absolutely going to get stuck in friend-zone. You’re friend-zoning yourself on purpose.
What is your advice?
The hookup part, you need to add that there. Have a glass of wine or two. Bring one bottle of wine over, and then you each can have a glass and a half. That’ll give each of you a nice little buzz. It’d be good. Hang out, have fun and hook up. You’re adults, you’re a thirty-five year old man, you’re not a fifteen year old teenage boy wondering whether or not you should lose your virginity with this girl. Come on, dude.
My current plan is to continue to hang out and have fun.
Come on, man. It’s bad way to go.
I’ll know when she’s ready to take it further, but my concern is if our hanging out without escalating could kill her attraction and land me in friend-zone.
Yeah, especially because she knows you’re not going out with her because you want to be her friend. She knows you’re going out with her because you want to access to the box. But you’re thinking, “Oh, I’ve got to wait. I’ve got to wait and I’ve got to be nice, and then I’ll get access to the box.” But what’s going to happen, she’s going to go, “The dude’s got no confidence, or he’s a wuss, or he’s a Harry Honda. I’ll let him fix my toilet when my new boyfriend comes over and takes a giant dump in the morning and clogs it up, because that’s what Harry Hondas are for.”
Don’t do what you’re doing. Dude, you’ve got to hook up. If the signs are there, the seduction signs I talk about in the book, you just escalate it. Women, when they like you, they open the door and all you’ve got to do is just walk through it. When the signs are there that I talk about in the book, when she is bumping into you and she’s extra close, you’re fooling around, you’re kissing and you’re making out, just see how far you can go. Two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, until you’re into the happy slimy highway, if you will.
That’s what I would do if I were you. I would not take your approach, because your approach is guaranteed to give you blue balls and get you firmly stuck in friend-zone and get you the wonderful label of the Harry Honda guy. You don’t want that. You don’t want to be that guy, trust me.
So if you’ve got a situation or a challenge and you’d like to get my help with it, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab on top of your screen and get a coaching session with yours truly.
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“When you ask women what attracts them to men, they usually say confidence is the first thing they notice. Confidence is certainty in your demeanor, vibe and actions. It’s positive expectation that you are used to getting what you want and that you expect to get what you want. It’s being sure of yourself and your own ability to make your grandest goals and dreams a reality. This makes women feel safe and comfortable enough to let go and let you lead the relationship and the interactions. Men who are timid, shy and unsure of themselves don’t make women feel safe. They make women feel like they are dealing with little boys instead of men. Women will let men seduce them, but they only allow boys to do things for them and not to them.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
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