Vetting Your Dates Properly: Body Count, Ex’s & Male Orbiters

Things to consider when vetting your dating prospects to determine if they are good relationship candidates.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who has read 3% Man 9 times. He’s been seeing a girl from Colombia who has a guy friend she has slept with in the past and who obviously still wants to sleep with her. They started talking about body count and even though hers is low, he basically made her feel like a hoe, and she got upset. He told her he’d never marry her because she slept with too many guys. He realizes he was a total ass and now she is distant. He asks my opinion. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

This particular guy, he’s read 3% Man, nine times. He’s seeing a girl from Columbia. Things have been going pretty well. He started talking about body count and how many guys has she slept with and vice versa. I’ve done many videos over this. Part of what it teaches in the book is especially for a guy, gentlemen don’t kiss and tell. The information is not going to help you, and if you’re sharing it with your girl and she happens to be mad at you down the road for whatever reason, your information that you give to her in the interest of openness is going to be thrown back in your face and used against you. It’s just not good to reveal it.

How much should you want to know about her exes and her history or the guys that are in her life? Does she have guys she used to date and sleep with still close to her? Guys are still trying to get into her pants? Because what you’re really trying to find out is, what’s the character of the woman that you’re dating? Character is destiny. Are you dating a good family oriented girl or are you dating a girl that comes from a broken home and she’s on OnlyFans, she’s selling her body for sex and basically acting like a modern day call girl on something like Seeking Arrangements? Or one of those kinds of different websites where men with money pay younger, attractive women, typically who didn’t have a strong father figure in their background, and they’re basically giving up themselves for cash.

You’re trying to find out, does this woman that you’re dating tell the truth? Is she honest? Does she have similar goals? Most importantly, does she have similar values to you? People who love, respect and value themselves and had a set a parents that filled up their bucket of self esteem so full that it’s next to impossible for the world to drain it dry, these are the kinds of women that you want to date. Women with a healthy self esteem, women who love, value and respect themselves, because they come from a family oriented environment and they’re raised by two good parents, they’re typically going to have a lot of self love and self respect, and they’re not going to go sleep with a couple hundred dudes for money. They’re just not, because they value and respect themselves. They admire their relationship that their parents had and they want to have something like that for themselves someday.

So from their history, you can kind of tell if you start dating a girl and she’s got an OnlyFans account and she’s got tons of male orbiters and wherever you go, men seem to know her. She’s always giving out her phone number, even though you guys are dating, giving it out to other guys. You’re on a date, the phone’s constantly blowing up. It’s beeping, and there’s some dude sliding into her messages when you’re on a date, “Oh, you don’t have to worry about him. He’s just a friend.” So you’re trying to figure out, what are you dealing with? What is the character of the woman that you’re dating?

This particular email, things are going well. They started having this conversation. This girl he’s dating is from Colombia, I think she said she’s got five guys that she’s dated and slept with. I think it was six, actually. For him, whatever reason, he’s like, “The number of the bodies that the girl I’m going to marry is five or less,” whatever reason, that’s the number he came up with. So she had one more than that and he was hanging out with her and he basically told her that she was a hoe and that there was no way he would marry somebody like that. Then after the fact, he realizes what an ass he was. She’s been distant obviously, because it hurt her feelings.

So you’ve got to think about how the things you say are going to make the other person feel, especially a woman. If you make her feel like crap when you’re with her, if you don’t make her feel good, well, when she’s with you, she’s going to associate not feeling good with being with you, and therefore she’s going to come up with reasons not to be around you as often as you would probably like.

So you got to think about things you say before you say them and what the importance is, because again, what’s super important is if you’re trying to vet a girl properly, you want her to feel comfortable. You want her to feel like she could tell you anything without you becoming angry, butt-hurt, perturbed, upset over it or angry, for that matter. If she feels like she could share anything with you, she typically will. Then once she gives you all of the information and her history, then you can make an intelligent and informed decision.

You’re just trying to find out, is this a girl who’s always been looking for love and a good boyfriend? Maybe some dude to eventually marry or a guy to have kids with? Most likely, if she’s family oriented, she’s looking for a guy that’s going to be good to her, like her own father has been good to her.

That’s what you’re looking for. What’s the family like? How does the mother talk to the father and vice versa? How does the girl you’re dating talk to and treat her father? Does she look up to him? Does she admire him? Does she respect him? Or is she constantly berating and belittling him and having no respect? These are the things you want to look for, because typically how the girl treats her father is often how she’s going to treat you. So you’ve got to pay attention.

Again, you want to create the conditions of openness to where she feels safe and comfortable to reveal all of her deepest, darkest secrets. Then you can make an intelligent and informed decision on whether or not you want to stick around, proceed, or you want to tap out. If you get upset, you get angry, you get butt-hurt constantly and you get perturbed very easily, she’s going to feel like it’s better just to not tell you. Then if you’re trying to vet her, you’re going to get the politically correct version of her history. Then it won’t be until 6-8 months, a year or two down the road before you really find out what she’s really like.

So you’re trying to find this stuff out as early as possible and as quickly as possible in the courtship. Obviously, this guy didn’t react too well and now he’s going, “Man, I really was an absolute ass to her. What do I do? How do I fix this?” There’s other things we got to consider because there is a guy that she has slept with in the past who is a friend who is still in her life, who still always seems to be around. More than likely, he still wants to get into her pants again. So how do you handle these situations?

Viewer’s Email:

Hi Coach,

First and foremost, thanks for getting many of us men through tough times.  

I’ve been following your work for almost two years, read 3% Man 9 times and listen to the audio version at least once every 3-6 months as well as your videos. 

That’s good. Every 3-6 months, twice a year, especially when you learn this stuff, that’s the appropriate response. That’s the appropriate amount of effort for somebody that’s really a serious student and is trying to turn this part of their life around so they can get a handle once and for all.

Since I followed your work, I have become a true catch, I’m financially stable, good looking, work remotely so I travel the world, and I am living the life of my dreams. I dated a lot of beautiful women and by doing what you say, I have almost a 100% success rate with my dates (they always want more). I met a girl in Colombia who blew me away, smart, petite, amazing body and ambitious, a true alpha girl. Everything was perfect till this weekend, when I took her on a weekend glamping getaway…

I don’t know if you meant to say glamping? I think glam. Does that mean shopping getaway or maybe saying camping getaway? He misspelled it? I don’t know what that means. Is glamping a thing? You guys can fact check me in the comments below.

…It was brought up that she had sex with one of her friends who happens to be her “best friend.”

Interesting. So if there’s a guy friend who is her “best friend” and she slept with and he’s still in her life, more than likely he still wants to get back into her pants and he’s not OK with just being the friend.

She even brought me to have dinner with him one time and was planning a trip with a few friends to go celebrate his birthday, I was invited of course. 

Under those conditions, if you’re invited, great. If you’re not there or you’re not invited or you’re not allowed but she’s supposed to be there because she’s his “best friend,” then obviously that would be suspect. So it’s a good sign that she’s like, “Hey, come hang out,” because it’s easier for women to keep a dude in friend zone than it is for a guy to be in friend zone when he doesn’t want to be there. That’s a fact of life.

According to her, they were best friends before anything happen which is why the friendship continued. 

Probably because he still wants to take a trip down memory lane.

However, she also mentioned she almost cheated on her previous boyfriend with this “friend” and that this “friend” at one point even crossed the boundaries while she was still in a relationship.

So what does that tell us? As Maya Angelou said, “When somebody shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” So the friend is still wanting to take a trip down memory lane, so he’s not obviously going to care about your relationship.

It’s not appropriate for her to be hanging out one-on-one with this “friend” while she’s in a relationship. If you’re there, that’s great. One-on-one? Absolutely not, because it’s clear he ain’t over her and he’s still trying to get her back. We have to assume that, because there’s no way any self-respecting man who is selective in who he dates is going to be and has choice of women is going to be OK with being stuck in friend zone. He’s clearly a male orbiter that is looking for another chance.

Clearly, the “best friend” has low integrity as far as respecting the relationship she was in. 

True, but she’s obviously naive. Quite frankly, most women tend to be naive about this that, “Oh, he’s OK with just being friends. He respects our relationship.” Well, if he’s tried in the past, he’ll try again if given the right opportunity.

She has to understand that, because character is destiny. We got to look at how this guy has behaved. If she values your relationship and she’s a loyal girl, she’ll go, “You know what? You’re right. It would be inappropriate for me to hang out with this dude one-on-one, because it’s obvious he doesn’t care. He didn’t care when I had a boyfriend last time, and if he gets a few drinks in him and you’re not around, he’ll probably try something. Because I love you and I care about our relationship, I’m not going to do that.” That’s what a good girl would say. She’d be worried about losing you. Therefore, she’s not going to do anything that’s going to put her in a potentially negative light.

It also came to light that she had 2 more casual sex relationships in the last 2 years as she was going through a “finding myself” phase (in total she has only been with 6 men, I do know this to be true).

Well, the the joke is always, you know, double or triple what women tell you. So if she says six, it’s probably 12 or maybe 18. You don’t really know.

I’m very old fashioned, so although I don’t want to marry a virgin, I do prefer to have a woman that has less than 5 men in her list…

It’s like, how do you come up with five? Where does that number come from?

…And ideally no casual sex partners. 

Whatever.

On top of it all, right before she wanted to become official, she mentioned we shouldn’t be friends with people we have slept with…

Imagine that. That’s interesting, isn’t it? Her “best friend” is somebody she slept with, and before they became official, she said it’s not appropriate. Then you got to ask, “OK, so what’s with you and your ‘best friend?’ Explain that to me. How is it? That sounds like a double standard. How do you explain that one, babe?”

…So I distanced myself from many other girls in Colombia who I have been with because now they are just friends. 

It’s the right thing to do. If you care about your relationship and you care about your significant other, you will do that for them because you care about the relationship and vice versa. They will reciprocate and do that for you. If they do that for you and tell you that they do that for you, you’ve got to verify it. “Trust, but verify,” as Ronald Reagan said, because again, we’re trying to vet this person and see what her character is like. Can we believe the things that she tells us or not?

Long story short, although she genuinely apologized, I got very upset (I am typically her rock and have complete control of my emotions but this triggered me)…

Typically, and you see this a lot in the Red Pill community, these guys are super triggered over body count and butt-hurt about how many men women have slept with.

Yes, it’s easier. I mean, any pretty girl can go out any day of the week to any bar and hang out where there are horny dudes and basically say, “Hey, you want to go home and have sex?” And almost 100% of those guys are going to be like, “Hell yeah, let’s go,” but it’s a lot harder for a guy to go out and do those things unless he’s got his act together and he understands how game and attraction works. So it’s not really a huge accomplishment if a woman is hot and she’s slept with a lot of guys because quite frankly, it’s pretty easy for her.

We want to see that they’re selective. Oftentimes, what you see with these guys that really focus on body count and how many dudes a girl has slept with, it’s because they haven’t slept with many girls and they feel insecure about it. That’s typically what you see.

…And said some things I didn’t mean such as that I don’t see her the same way anymore and although I could date her, I don’t see myself ever marrying her or having her as the mother of my kids, at least not at the moment. 

So these are the kinds of things that when you’re getting all emotional and you’re getting upset, you might want to just take a pause and say, “You know, I need to go for a walk. I’m going to go for a drive in my car. I’m going to go see my mother. I’m going to go hang out with my best friend. I need to contemplate some things in my life right now,” and remove yourself from the situation instead of putting your foot in your mouth and saying things you’re probably going to regret later.

You should never react this way. Even if she’s telling you things that you don’t like to hear, instead of saying six, what if she’s like, “Yeah, I slept with 60 dudes?” You’d be like, “OK well, tell me about those 60 guys. Do you have an OnlyFans account? What’s going on?”

And although I didn’t insult her,…

Oh, yes you did. You totally insulted her.

…I did say a few things that may have made her feel as if I think she’s a slut (which I never said, I actually highlighted how she’s the best woman I’ve met and that’s why she’s only my second serious relationship).

It doesn’t matter dude. You told her she was a slut. You basically told her she wasn’t good enough to marry you because she slept with too many guys. That’s horrible. It’s a horrible thing to say. It’s not nice. It’s not adding value to your relationship. You’re berating her because you feel inadequate about her sexual history versus your own. Typically the guys that feel really inadequate about it is because they haven’t slept with very many women and they haven’t been good enough to be able to sleep with the kinds of women that they want, usually inexperienced guys that don’t have a lot of sexual partners, they get the most butt-hurt over this. That’s just a fact of life.

Any dude who gets insecure over how many guys a woman has slept with is typically because he hasn’t slept with very many women himself. It doesn’t mean most guys, if they’re going to have a family with somebody, you’re not going to want to date and marry a girl that’s got a body count of 200 dudes obviously. Anybody that’s sleeping with that many people is sleeping with people they don’t give a shit about, and most of the people they don’t care about. There’s no emotions of all, they don’t feel anything, it’s just casual, unattached, emotionless sex. They tend to treat other human beings like disposable commodities.

We don’t want a zombie. We don’t want somebody that’s emotionally messed up. We want somebody that is sincerely relationship focused, not a girl that’s like, “Hey, if you give me a couple of grand, I’ll sleep with you every week. You give me a couple of grand.” That’s not what you’re looking for. Girls that are family oriented typically are not doing those kinds of things. Even though you hear a lot of the dudes in the Red Pill community harping on that, that’s not the majority of women out there.

I mean, if you suck at approaching women in person and you’re only able to get dates off dating apps and you’re mostly getting them off the hookup apps like Tinder and things, or especially Hinge where there’s just a lot of girls that are basically hookers now, it’s like the hookers have moved on to the dating apps in the last 6-8 years. You hear this meme that this is “modern women” or “Western women.” That’s the type of women that they’re interacting with. They’re interacting with a lot of girls that come from broken homes.

You even see it on the podcasts. Watching these podcasts with nothing but OnlyFans girls, strippers or sex workers, and then going, “Hey, this is modern women.” It’s ridiculous. It’s just absurd, but they get a lot of views. We’re here because, if you’re watching this, it’s because you want to have a good quality relationship. I mean, the title of my website is UnderstandingRelationships.com, and you want something of meaning. Therefore, you want to find somebody who also values relationships, closeness and values other people.

People that value other people, are going to be selective with who they sleep with. Those that don’t, they’re going to be a little more psychopathic. That’s why you’ll see dozens and hundreds of sexual partners. You don’t marry party girls. They’re both out there. You can have a lot of fun, especially if you’re a young guy and you’re trying to get experience, party girls are great. They’re great for your self esteem and they build your confidence. Wear a raincoat, obviously, but that’s part of a man’s coming of age. He’s got to get experience somehow, some way, and you got to learn to vet properly,

We have been together for about 8 months from the time we met to now. I told her I would rather me and her not hang out with that “friend” at least till I am more comfortable with the situation. 

Well, the fact that this guy is still trying to sleep with her, I’d be like, “I don’t want to hang out with that dude at all. By the way, your standard when we became official is that we should not be friends with people that we slept with. In other words, hanging out one-on-one? Definitely not. Some guy who is still trying to sleep with you should not be your ‘best friend.’ He’s not interested in being your ‘best friend.’ He’s interested in beating up your pelvis.”

She agreed, we had sex, and the next morning she woke up very sad and left my apartment. I messaged her later letting her know I was setting up a date night the following day to which she responded she’s not emotionally okay and would rather not do anything this week because she needs time and space. 

She’s got to process the fact that you told her she was a hoe bag and you would never marry her. That’s horrible, dude. It’s a horrible thing. Even if you’re thinking that, it’s better to bite your tongue. Think about it for a few days before, because that’s one of those things you can’t take back. Any time she doubts your interest in her, this shit’s going to get thrown right back in your face, so congratulations. That’s why when you talk about sex partners and body count, you better think about what you say before you say it, because you might say something like this guy did and like, “Oh, I probably shouldn’t have done that.”

I told her that’s perfectly fine, and I have since then not contacted her. I told her she should take all the time she needs, and I apologized for handling the situation like an ass because I definitely admit I shouldn’t have been as harsh. 

Be like, “You know what? It was judgmental of me. It was wrong. I got upset, and I reacted poorly. Probably made you feel like shit. Probably made you feel like you didn’t care. Probably made you feel like a hoe bag, and that you weren’t worth it. I shouldn’t have said what I said. I was emotional. My emotions got the best of me, and I apologize.”

I told her I’m proud of having her as my girlfriend and wouldn’t change that for anything. She sort of ignored that message.

Because quite frankly, the other things you said are so overwhelming. It’s like, you’re saying the right things, but after that bomb you dropped, it’s pretty hard to come back from that. 

We haven’t spoken in two days, and tomorrow (Friday) we have a dinner for her sisters’ birthday. She mentioned Friday would be a good day to see each other again so I guess I will see her then. 

My questions is, what are your thoughts on this? Did I handle it horribly?

Pretty much. It’s about as badly as you could. You didn’t break up with her, but you just basically told her she belonged to the streets.

How wrong was she for that whole “best friend” situation?

Well, I find it interesting that she told you when you became exclusive that you shouldn’t have people that you slept with that close to you. Yet her “best friend” is somebody she’s not only slept with, but it’s obvious who is still carrying the torch for her and still wants another shot. So if we all know that this “friend” wants to get back in her pants, then it’s not appropriate for her to be one-on-one with that guy at all, or really be spending long hours on the phone talking with this guy because all he’s trying to do is talk her into sleeping with him again. It’s not because he wants to be “friends.” He wants her back.

And if it all goes well Friday, what do you recommend I do moving forward to deal with this?

Well, what is the simple formula? Hang out, have fun while you’re hanging out and hook up. What happened was the last time you were hanging out, instead of having fun, you made your girl feel like a hoe. You still hooked up, but she still left your house feeling like crap. So you got to remember, whatever you make her feel when she’s with you is what she’s going to associate with being with you. It would be good to focus on the good things, the good feelings, the good emotions and the chemistry. If she brings it up and she wants to talk about it, “Well, tell me about that. What else? Tell me more. How did that make you feel?”

You probably might have to do a little bit more apologizing. She’s got to understand that you understand why what you said was inappropriate and how it made her feel, but you also need to set some boundaries, especially with this other “friend” dude, and any other male orbiters that might be in the background. You need to have a heart-to-heart because she told you what her standard was, and yet she’s not living up to her own standard, and the standard was, “Hey, we shouldn’t have exes or people we slept with really close to us like this.”

That’s definitely a conversation you’re going to need to have at some point. I wouldn’t recommend it right now. I would recommend it after the next time you get together. If you are going to bring up the “friend,” bring it up after you’ve just had sex and given her a bunch of orgasms. That’d be the best time. Say, “Well, I’ve been thinking about this and you got this ‘best friend’ of yours and it’s obvious he’s not a ‘best friend.’ He wants a second chance. So that’s not appropriate. So you shouldn’t be hanging out with that guy one-on-one. Also, you shouldn’t be spending hours talking on the phone with him because all he’s trying to do is talk you back into sleeping with him.”

“If you’re going to be loyal to me and you want me to see you as a potential wife, you’re just not going to do those things. I’m sorry for overreacting the other day. I got emotional. It was inappropriate. I was an ass. It was wrong. Sorry I hurt you. Sorry what I said made you feel the way you did. It was not my intent, but I can’t take it back. By the way, you look really cute in that dress.”

We have an amazing connection so would not like to lose this girl, and she feels the same as she has repeatedly told me she has never felt this way about anyone. 

Thank Coach, 

Bob

Well, if you’ve read the book 10 times, I would say that’s accurate. Like I said, you got some cleanup that you need to do here because you need to get this “best friend situation” handled and addressed and then see how she addresses it. If you both agree and she’s supposed to distance herself from this guy, she either will distance herself or she won’t.

Again, part of the vetting process. If she’s the right girl, if she’s wife material, she will respect your conversation and she will distance herself from him and she will maintain that. Any time this guy contacts her and tries to get her to spend more time or whatever, she’s going to let you know about it. You’re giving her the opportunity to do the right thing or to be a scoundrel.

Either way, you want her to feel comfortable enough to be who she really is, because if she’s a good girl, she’ll do the right thing. If she’s a scoundrel, you’ll catch her being a scoundrel again. Then you can dip out.

So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly. Until next time, I will talk to you soon.