How to determine if women with male orbiters who lie are trustworthy and which women are worth trusting.
In this video coaching newsletter I discuss two different emails from two different viewers. The 1st email is from a guy new to my work who just ended a relationship with his girlfriend because of her hiding several male orbiters from him and lying about it when he confronted her. The 2nd email is from a guy who got involved with a woman he dated in college 10 years later. However, he found out that she was still seeing and sleeping with with her supposed ex.
Both men wonder if these women are redeemable and deserve a second chance or if it’s simply not possible to be able to trust them in the future to be honest because of their repeated history of dishonesty and deception. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the bodies of their emails.
Both of these guys are involved with women who are lying. Their question is, should I give them another chance? Are they redeemable? We talk a lot about how character is destiny. Obviously, I like roasting a lot of the dudes in the Red Pill community, because a lot of them just suck at vetting women and then when things don’t go well, they try to wife up a hoe or date a stripper or some girl with all kinds of daddy issues who’s a habitual liar and cheater, and then they’re surprised that she does the same thing to them. Then their way to cope is to say, “Oh well, this is just modern women. They’re all like this.” There’s plenty of YouTube channels where that’s the only type of guests they bring on. They don’t ever bring family oriented good girls that come from good families on there, because quite frankly, family oriented women just aren’t going to want anything to do with these dudes. That’s the harsh reality.
What I’ve learned in my life, and I see this over and over and I’ve seen this recently in my business with somebody that used to work for me, was that they were constantly doing things that were just dishonest and they would lie about it. You give them a chance and they still lie about it. The older I get (I’m 53 now), it reconfirms to me that people don’t change. They may be become a better version of who they are, but a liar, a cheater, somebody who’s devious, somebody that says one thing and does another, somebody that’s just blatantly dishonest, may become better at hiding it. If they’re a scumbag and a shyster, they’re going to continue to do that.
I saw a one of the guys, Quintus Curtius, who I followed yesterday on Twitter, he was talking about how guys that are scam artists and ripping people off and then get into trouble, then all of a sudden they find religion. Now they’re religious and these are their values and they get involved in that. At the end of the day, they’re still scam artists, and so they’re scamming us, as he put it, gets put into their new scam. Which in this case, some of these guys, I’m not going to I don’t need to mention any names, but last year, they all sudden became super religious and then comes to find out they’re just a bunch of hypocrites and scam artists trying to hide behind, try to hide their scam behind religion and you can’t outrun karma. Eventually, it will always catch up to you. Like the person that used to work for me, it’s a your lies and your deviousness and your dishonesty. Eventually, it catches up to you and you reap what you sow in life. As good, honorable men, we need to surround ourselves with good, honorable men and women and people who have integrity. You got to hold the people in your life accountable to the standards that you set, because whatever you tolerate, you invite more of.
Again, that’s what you see in the Red Pill community. These guys habitually attract low quality people into their lives, people that are dishonest, people that screw them over, they see red flags and yet they proceed anyway. Then when it doesn’t work out, they want to point the finger and say it wasn’t their fault. As men, strong men blame themselves, weak men blame others. If you’re not taking ownership for the other person’s shitty behavior or lack of character, at the end of the day, you allowed them into your life. You have responsibility for inviting them into your world. Men just take responsibility for it and hold themselves accountable. Let’s go through the first guy’s email and see what you guys think. Is this woman redeemable or not?
First Viewer’s Email:
I just purchased your book 3% Man, and I’m excited to apply your rules to my dating life.
Well, I would say it’s not so much a rule as it is a guideline. These things are not set in stone, but the more you do the things that are in my book, 3% Man, the more you’re going to get better results for your life.
I wanted to get your perspective on a relationship that I just ended due to my ex texting other men and hiding it from me. When we first met, she was SnapChatting and texting 4-5 men regularly. All of them, she told me, we’re just friends from her social circle or college.
Well, those of us who’ve been here for a while know that those dudes are not interested in just being her friend. They want the opportunity to rearrange her insides and beat up her pelvis. That’s the bottom line. That’s why they stick around. Women who typically have daddy issues, they don’t have a strong man or masculine presence in their lives, somebody that they can count on, the large majority of them are going to have lots of male orbiters, because they never learned a healthy way to invite and keep male attention. So they seek it from wherever they can get it because, quite frankly, they don’t know any better.
That’s what they learned, to survive in the world in a way that if you’re looking to have a monogamous relationship with them, most of them are typically not going to be capable of it, especially when they’re constantly having male orbiters. If they tell you that they’re gone and yet they continue to talk to them, that’s lies. That’s deviousness. Somebody who is honest will admit they made a mistake. They’ll take corrective action and they won’t keep making the same mistake or doing the same infraction.
They had never hooked up. I didn’t know if me wanting her to stop talking to these men made me jealous or reasonable, since she said they were strictly platonic with no history. What are your thoughts?
Well, she obviously liked the attention and validation that these guys gave her. We do know, because I’ve been through the email, that he has caught her being dishonest. If you’re catching somebody in lies constantly and they promise not to do it again, and yet they lie again, especially when it comes to other men, you have to assume that what they’re telling you about other men is suspect as well. So did these guys really not hook up? It’s a 50/50 shot. What are the odds? Maybe one of them has. Bottom line is, if she’s shown a track record of being untrustworthy, as Gerald Celente in the Trends Research Institute says, “Current events form future trends.“
Fast forward a year, and I had finally had enough. Some of the men she would send hearts to, some were quite attractive and I knew by the way she worded her texts she was trying to impress him. Others she admitted to having a crush on at one point in time.
See what I mean? “Oh, nothing’s happened. Nothing’s going on. Strictly platonic. I have no interest in these guys. Oh well, I kind of had a crush on one of them at one time.” Yeah, seems legit.
At that moment I told her, “Enough. No more holding onto all these old male relationships, even if they are and have always been strictly platonic.”
Well, it’s obviously her or the guys wanted something more than platonic, and she keeps them around because obviously on some level she’s hoping, or at least with one of them we know of or a couple of them that she had a crush on, she’s hoping to get together with them.
Because at the end of the day, I’m not texting a bunch of chicks.
It’s true. Number one most important value to the majority of men is loyalty. If you’re in a relationship with a woman who’s still texting affectionately dudes that she never dated but wanted to date and trying to get their attention, that’s not somebody that’s displaying loyal behavior. That’s somebody that will cheat when they get the chance or the opportunity. Most likely when they’re pissed off at you or they have low attraction for you, because maybe you got complacent because you’ve been together for a long time. That’s why character is destiny. People don’t change who they are. They may become a better version of who they are, just like the shysters and the scumbags and the rip-off artists, especially the ones that all of a sudden found religion in the past year that Quintus Curtius was talking about. Wouldn’t trust these people as far as I can throw them. As Maya Angelou said, “When somebody shows you or tells you who they are, believe them the first time.”
The only time I reach out to women via text is for work, or to invite someone in my social circle to a social event that involves my girlfriend. Seems like reasonable boundaries, right?
Well, people that share the value system of loyalty, family, monogamy, exclusivity, they’re just not going to do these things, because they learn from their parents that this is not appropriate behavior. You should be an honest person. Women that came from broken homes or women that came from environments where cheating and lying was just part of part of the daily life there, they’re emotionally conditioned to think this is totally reasonable behavior. Women in survival mode, they’re going to continually burn you ,and you might feel compassion for them, but you got to look at what they do, not what they say.
She agreed and said she understood my point. Everything seemed cool for a little over a year, but I never once checked her phone in that time, so she could have continued doing it and just hid it better.
Everything changed this Saturday, when I decided to go through her phone based on some bad gut feelings I was having based on her behavior. I found multiple men in her deleted texts folder.
So she’s deleting things in case you happen to go through it. That’s not good. Just like you said, it appears she’s become better at hiding it. Maybe she knows that he’s got the the pass code to her phone and he can check it at any time. So just to be safe, she’ll delete the text conversations or the comment threads from her apps that would make her look bad.
Both she had texted two months ago on a Friday night while getting drinks with her girlfriend.
“Hey girls night out! Let’s text other dudes other than your boyfriend or your husband!” A woman who was family oriented and loves her man or husband, loves her father, has a good relationship with her father, talks to him multiple times a day because she loves her dad and loves her mom, has a good relationship with him, she’s not going to do this shit. Plain and simple. She’s not going to do this. A woman who belongs to the streets? Oh yeah, absolutely, they can’t help themselves. They never had any balanced, healthy, normal, honorable, masculine energy growing up. All they saw was ratchetness, I guess is the word. People being dishonest scumbags.
No flirting, but she told one of them she missed them and seemed like she was trying to make them laugh.
So one of these guys, she’s obviously trying to get their attention. Sounds like she’s got some daddy issues. Daddy never gave her attention. Now as an adult, as a woman, even though she’s in a relationship, supposedly exclusive, she’s fangirling other dudes. That’s just unforgivable. This is a fuck buddy, friends with benefits, sex playmate. That’s it. You don’t get into a relationship or commit to being exclusive with somebody who behaves this way. They’re not going to change. She promised it. Wouldn’t happen anymore. Right. Well, she didn’t mean that.
Character is destiny. People don’t change who they are. They may become a better version of themselves, but the scumbag, the liar, the devious person, they’re just going to become better at hiding it. This case in point, here we are once again, just like the person who used to work for me. If they’re dishonest, once or twice, you can forgive them and give them the benefit of the doubt. But if that’s who they are, character is destiny. Eventually you’re going to catch them doing it again.
There was no point to the conversations other than catching up. After this, I broke up with her, not only for violating my boundaries, but also trying to hide the evidence. Was I wrong in ending things?
No, dude, you were right. Your Spidey sense was telling you something was off, and you were right about that. This hoe ain’t loyal!
On your channel you talk a lot about these male orbiters who were previous ex boyfriends or FWBs, but rarely do you mention male orbiters that (acceding to the girl) are strictly platonic and always have been. Is this different?
No, because she came right out and told you one of them she had a crush on. If I was a bad man and we were to talk to these other male orbiters, all of them basically are thirsting after your girl and hoping to get a shot, but probably were too beta in order for her to give them a chance and spread the legs for them. But she sure likes the attention. Probably gets free meals and drinks and other things from her, or maybe they do favors. It’s good to keep guys like that around for these types of women. That’s just who they are. This is part of the vetting process. You get to see if she have tons of dudes that are thirsty and hoping to date her? Lots of beta males will accept being stuck in friend zone. Look at the male feminist. They pretend to care about women’s issues and be male feminists, but in reality they’re just shitty pickup artists.They’re creepy, weird dudes. They think by carrying the banner of feminism, they’re going to get close to the chocha. In the end, all they get is blue balls and frustration. There’s a reason why they call them incels. So let’s go to the second email.
Second Viewer’s Email:
My name is Bob and I started following your channel a few years ago at the start of the pandemic. I’ve read your book twice and purchased the audio book to help support.
Well, let me back up a little bit here. He started following me a few years ago, but he’s only read the book twice. There’s no shortcuts to success, my man. I talked to a guy yesterday who had been following me for years. I think it was like, 6-7 years. Read the book once, and you wonder why you’re struggling in your relationship. He was literally that close to losing his girlfriend because he didn’t know the material. He didn’t take the time to learn it ,because he thought he was different, thought he was special, and he was making glaringly obvious things that are discussed in the book. He’s making mistakes and his girlfriend was predictably responding.
I’ve been in a relationship with my girlfriend for about a year and a half. We dated back in college, but things didn’t work out. I found out years later that she wanted to make things work with the father of her children at the time. We reconnected in our thirties and things haven’t been as easy as I thought they would be the second time around.
So you can understand why a lot of guys go, “Oh, the ex is the ex for a reason.” Most of the time, the reason the ex is an ex is because the man displayed a lot of unattractive behavior. There’s also a good percentage of those are the guy didn’t display attractive behavior, but he also didn’t vet her properly, so she had no integrity. There was no way a relationship with him is going to work. Just like the first emailer, that chick is not going to be loyal to anybody. Maybe when she’s old and unattractive and doesn’t have many options anymore, maybe, but more than likely, there’s so many thirsty dudes out there. They’ll probably be plenty of guys thirsting after her. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her. That’s why that first email, he did the right thing by dipping out.
She was dating a deadbeat man who disrespected her, her family, and her kids throughout their 10-year relationship. When we started seeing each other, she told me that they were separated and seeing other people for over year prior. However, they were still living together but sleeping in separate beds.
It’s right in the book. This is why you don’t date women in the middle of a divorce or women in the process of a breakup. In this case, she’s still living with the ex. You just don’t do that. You don’t get involved with them. The book says the odds of that working out or good things happening or it being easy and effortless are slim to none. He only read the book once, so he didn’t listen.
Things were going well for over nine months, until I found out that she lied to me about seeing her ex.
Shocked! I am so shocked, I tell you!
I found out that they were having dinners together and spending more time together even after I told her I was not comfortable with this.
You don’t date women that still live with their exes or that are in the middle of a divorce. This is why. You just don’t, because you invest all your emotional energy, your time, your money, your heart, your soul. You get emotionally attached and then the relationship blows up on you. Now a year and a half, it takes for you to completely get free of any emotional charge. That’s what the average person takes about a year and a half, when a long term relationship ends to totally get over it where they can move on and they don’t have an emotional charge to it.
They were no longer living together but would meet up to discuss their “co-parenting plans.” I set my boundaries, stood my ground, and broke up with her. I did it because she told me they were only speaking on a need-to-know basis via phone calls, but it started turning in to in person meetups.
Yeah, because he’s the father of her children and on some level, she’s hoping that the guy is going to change. That a reconciliation is going to be possible. Plus ,they got a decade and they got children together. From a leverage perspective, the ex has all the leverage. When you hear that kind of a situation, “Oh, I still live with my ex, but hey, we’re dating other people,” it’s like, “Nah.”
I wrote about that in my book too. There was a girl who posed for Playboy. She was living with her ex-husband and their kids co-parenting. The house was a mess. The kids were out of control and just total brats. I want two dates with her maybe, and then I dipped. As hot as she was, it’s like, I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole.
During this two month break, I established no contact and she ended up reaching out to me on my birthday. She stated that she missed me and would hear songs that reminded her of me. We ended up reconnecting on the basis that she was over this guy and no longer wanted a life with him. A few dates in, we had a date where she had a few too many drinks.
Oops! Truth serum.
She asked me if I was with anyone during our break. I told her, “I don’t kiss and tell,” but she insisted that I tell her.
That’s because you’re soft. He gave in.
I gave in and told her no, and she also stated that she was not seeing anyone during the break. Things were smooth for the next four months until I found out from her ex that she was indeed sleeping with him during our break.
Yeah. Probably been sleeping with the dude the whole time.
I don’t know how long this went on, but I confronted her about it and broke up with her feeling betrayed. I no longer felt that I could trust her after she denied it when I asked her about it months prior. She cried and begged me to take her back stating that she didn’t want to hurt my feelings at the moment.
This is what liars learn. Hey, it’s better just to tell a lie, because people can’t handle the truth, including themselves. You’re not going to fix this. She’s always been this way. She’s got kids with this dude. She’s continuing to see him and sleep with him, even though you were supposedly seeing her on break. I would bet more than likely she was fucking you and fucking him, even though you thought you were in a relationship with her.
She stated that she cut it off before she reached out to me and only communicates with him via email.
Remember, she already lied about this once before. “Strictly phone. There’s no meet up.” Then he finds out, “Oh, they’re going and having dinners and stuff.“
She proclaimed that she loved me and didn’t want to lose me.
Oh, yeah. This woman doesn’t know what love is. This hoe ain’t loyal either.
Although I did love her, it’s become very hard for me to trust what she says. I even did something that I never do and checked her phone while she was sleeping to see if her story held up. There were no red flags, but I feel disgusted that she brought this side out of me.
Well, love cannot exist where there is no trust, and she hasn’t done anything to earn your trust. She’s habitually lied to you over and over and over again, and it’s gone on for years. This is not just something that happened once or twice. It went on for years. This woman ain’t changing. That’s who she is. All you can do now is accept it.
I’ve established a loving relationship with her kids and her parents and it hurts me to put them in this situation.
You’re not putting them in this situation, she put them in this situation.
Her kids never had a father figure growing up, so I stepped up as a man to be there for her family.
Yeah, because you’re a good dude, but you’re kind of gullible and naive.
Her parents separated when she was younger due to a toxic marriage.
Gee, I wonder where she learned this from. This is what she learned from her parents. This is her parents’ fault. Her parents screwed her up. Her family screwed her up, and she and her ex are screwing their children up. You can want to be a white knight and everything, but they’re not your kids. You have no attachment to them at all. I know it sucks, but that’s on her. That’s on her family. They can deal with it in family therapy, which they’ll probably never go to, but they would need it, but it’s not going to turn her into an honest person.
Your book states that women who come from unstable homes have trauma that stem from childhood that cause issues in their future relationships.
Well, we model what our parents teach us. It’s pretty simple. Obviously the marriage was toxic, so she modeled toxic behavior and she’s been doing it her whole life. She’s an adult now. She’s been doing this for decades. You’re not going to change her. You just have to accept the reality.
My question is whether she deserves another chance…
Abso-fucking-lutely not! No way in hell.
…And what could she do to rebuild the broken trust in our relationship?
Nothing, because she’s shown you for many years that this is who she is. Like Maya Angelou said, “When somebody shows you or tells you who they are, believe them the first time.” Simple as that. You gave her multiple chances and she disliked the person you used to work for. I gave this person multiple chances and they still decided to be a dirt-bag, so they’re out of a job.
I’m starting to wonder if it’s worth the effort given that these doubts will linger in the back of my mind due to her pattern of behaviors. The only other issue we had in our relationship was regarding a male orbiter in her life that she was talking to. I set my boundaries which she eventually respected and cut the guy off out of respect for me.
Is she being sincere this time around…
Absolutely not. She’s just telling you what you want to hear, because you’ve been so gullible in the past and believed her.
…Or are these just crocodile tears?
We will put these in the category of crocodile tears, my friend. If I was you, you’ve already ejected, and you need to stay ejected. You need to move on with your life, because you are not going to fix this girl being Mr. White Knight, Captain Savageau. Her family screwed her up. It’s on them. It’s not on you. You don’t have any responsibility for this. Yes, you invited her into your life and you kept giving her the benefit of the doubt, but she burned you so many times. It’s like the Scorpion and the Frog analogy. A scorpion’s going to do what a scorpion is going to do. A liar and a cheater is going to do what a liar and a cheater is going to do. None of this is surprising to me. Character is destiny. People don’t change who they are, but they may become a better version of it. It is what it is. Both of these women, they belong to the streets.
So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly.
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