Having “The Talk” or “What Are We?”

May 20, 2019 by Coach Corey Wayne
Photo by iStock.com/g-stockstudio

When you should have “the talk” or bring up the topic of having a relationship, commitment, being exclusive or asking a woman “what are we?”

In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a viewer who is forty-seven, divorced and a single parent who is once again dating his ex from two years ago for about two months. She is also divorced and has kids from a previous relationship. He says she dumped him about two years ago after about a year of dating. After finding my work recently, he reached out to her a few months ago and they have been seeing each other about twice a month, because they only see each other when their kids are with their former spouses.

He obviously wants more and wants to see her more. He wants to know if he should bring up a relationship so they can see each other more. He admits he most likely got dumped before due to his acting like an approval seeking, needy beta male.My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

A lot of guys are in this situation here. They’re not really focused on their mission and purpose like they should be, and it creates problems. It’s just a vibe, an energy that a guy gives off when he’s in his masculine energy — purpose, drive, mission, succeeding, accomplishing, breaking through barriers and overcoming challenges. If a man takes care of what he needs to take care of, the issues he’s having with his woman will resolve themselves.

If you watch the movie “It’s A Wonderful Life” with Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed, you’ll see she always had a crush on him. She was always scheming to get George Bailey to be her husband, and he’s got dreams and things he wants to do. He wants to get out of this small town, go see the world, and build this big business empire. The whole movie, she’s chasing and pursuing him, she’s very feminine and very submissive. By the end of the movie, they live happily ever after.

Photo by Herbert Dorfman/Corbis via Getty Images

So in that same vibe, you’re going to see as I go through this guy’s email, that the problem here is he’s too much in his feminine, and he hasn’t completely overcome the beta male tendencies that led to him getting dumped in the first place. He’s impatient, he wants it now, and he’s not focused on his mission and his purpose like he should be. In a lot of ways, he’s kind of following her lead, and she’s setting the pace and the tone of the relationship. At the end of the day, women are going to drive that anyway, but he’s trying to force things, even though he doesn’t really see that he’s doing that.

Hi Corey,

Please guide me: would the circumstances below warrant “having the talk”?

I respect your time and so tried to keep my mail short and to the point, but let me know if it’s too cryptic though.

1. Key points about me:

·         47 years old

·         Divorced for 7 years

·         Single parent

·         10 year old daughter stays with me, visits my ex-wife every second weekend

2. Context to question:

·         Started dating Jessica 3 years ago for just shy of a year. She’s divorced and she has 2 daughters.

·         Jessica broke up with me

When a woman is head over heels in love with you, they don’t dump you. They don’t break up with you. When a woman is in love with you, like I talk about in my quote, they want your attention all the fucking time. Just like what you see in the movie “It’s a Wonderful Life.” Donna Reed’s character goes out of her way to get Jimmy Stewart’s attention and put herself in his orbit in hopes that he sees that she’s really into him and does something about it. In other words, the whole movie she’s seeking his attention and validation. Not the other way around. You’re seeking this woman’s attention and validation, and that’s in essence what led to you getting dumped the first time around.

Photo by iStock.com/Vasyl Dolmatov

·         Reasons (still) mostly unclear

·         Suspect it related to some beta male qualities displayed

Exactly, because you’re operating in her world and her vision, instead of focusing on your mission and your purpose and inviting her to join you. It’s a night and day difference. It’s subtle, but the idea is you’ve got to be the leader of your own life, and build this grand vision of what you want to build, where you want to live, what kind of cars you want to drive, the kind of house you want to live in, the kind of things you want to do for fun, the kind of friends you want to have, and you invite the woman to join you in that, so you can co-create that together.

·         I dated several other women since

·         Discovered your work since

·         Important: my daughter became very attached to Jessica and didn’t take our breakup well. She was about 6 or 7 at the time, misses her still, and was heartbroken.

You’ve mentioned your daughter several times, and how much she likes Jessica. In a way, you’re trying to use logic and reason to try to sell me on why Jessica should want to spend more time with you. You’re thinking logically, instead of taking care of your own life.

3. Recent past:

·         In March this year I reached out to Jessica again 

Keep in mind, she dumped you, and after two years, you don’t mention if you’ve talked at all. But you just reached out to her after she dumped you, so you’re pursuing her, seeking her attention and validation. As I talk about in “7 Principles To Get An Ex Back,” if you get dumped, the strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it. You tell the woman, “I’m not interested in being friends. Give me a call if you change your mind.”

You should also read my book, “How To Be A 3% Man.” You’ve got to read the book 10-15 times. You don’t say anything about having read the book, and I suspect you’re probably being lazy and trying to cherry-pick information in the videos.

·         She was very receptive

Photo by iStock.com/wundervisuals

·         I now follow your principles:

o   Don’t talk about the past

o   Not having “what are we?” conversations

o   Only set up dates via phone

o   Hang out, hang fun, hook up

o   Being decisive, etc.

·         Jessica is doing most of chasing 

That’s good, but as I talk about in the book, a guy should really never do more than 20-30% of the calling, texting and pursuing. You’ve got to find the balance. As you date and as you’re hanging out, having fun and hooking up over the weeks, and as she becomes more emotionally invested and attached, she’s going to want to bond and connect more, because that is feminine energy. But it’s got to be her idea.

If the guy is trying to rush it because he wants to settle down, he’s going to typically try too hard, get too focused on her and where he stands with her, and she’s going to feel that. She’s going to feel like things are being rushed and forced. He’s going to make her feel like she’s being smothered and she needs her space. Remember, “you must love in such a way that the person you love feels free,” like Thich Nhat Hanh says.

Photo By Cyrus McCrimmon/The Denver Post via Getty Images

It’s true the man starts the courtship off and chases in the beginning, but once a woman starts reaching out, you can slowly back off. If she’s doing most of the pursuing, then it’s her idea.

·         High levels of attraction

When a woman has a really high attraction level for you, she will make time, she’ll get babysitters, she’ll figure those things out. If she’s not willing to do that, that’s just a sign of her attraction level. The bottom line is, you’ve got to look at her actions.

·         Important: my daughter is unaware Jessica and I are seeing each other again. Purposefully keeping it from her until I am (somehow) sure that there is a large degree of permanency in relationship.

Again, you’re looking for attention and validation from Jessica that it’s going to go somewhere before you let your daughter know you’re seeing each other, which I think is a great idea. That’s a smart way to go about it, because if you start involving your daughter, then you’re applying pressure and trying to manipulate her because your little girl wants to see her. It sounds like a good idea, it sounds legit and logical, but it doesn’t work because it’s not her idea.

4. Problem:

·         All is going well at the moment with Jessica

·         But, limited time to see each other

At the end of the day, attraction cuts through everything. If she’s head over heels in love with you, it won’t fucking matter. She will make time. But it doesn’t sound like that is happening. Her attraction level is low. Remember, you reached out to her after two years. It’s not like she reached out to you to see what you were up to. You’re focused on her attraction level towards you and not really paying attention to what she’s doing.

o   Single parenthood is very demanding on time

o   We both take parenting role very seriously

Photo by iStock.com/grinvalds

Look at all of these rationalizations here. It’s sounds logical. It sounds like it makes sense, but the only thing that matters is, how is this woman feeling towards you emotionally?

o   I.e., we invest time in our children…we don’t outsource our parenting

That sounds like a rationalization or an excuse as to why she’s not getting a babysitter to make herself more available. The reality is because her attraction level is low. She doesn’t want to. She doesn’t miss you enough to want to see you more.

o   So very limited opportunities to see each other during a “school week”

·         Only way to increase our facetime is to see each other while kids are around

Again, that’s another rationalization. You could get a babysitter, and so could she. It justifies your model of the world, “We’re just really busy and we don’t want to outsource our parenting, and that’s why we can’t get together.” No, it’s a low attraction level.

·         As opposed to when kids are with ex-spouses – usually every second weekend – as is the case now

5. Question:

·         Should I have a “what are we?” conversation to determine if there is a level of permanency to the relationship before introducing my daughter to the relationship again?

Absolutely not. It’s not her fucking idea. And if she ain’t bringing it up, that tells you where you stand with her. But if you had been reading the book 10-15 times and learning it backwards and forward, you would know that. You’ve got to learn the fundamentals. There’s no way around it. If you follow everything in the book, usually be week seven, the woman will be in love.

·         …and thereby increasing opportunities to see Jessica more?

Thank you for your good work, you touch so many more people than you know.

Kind regards,

Bob

You’ve been on four dates in two months, so it sounds like she likes you, she likes getting together and she likes the sex, but she’s not lying awake at night in bed thinking about you obsessively. More than likely because you’re calling and texting too much. I would say, you’ve got to back off more dude. Whatever level of pursuing you’re doing, you should cut it in half. Then give it a few weeks and see what happens.

If she’s not bringing it up, that tells you where you stand with her. That tells you that she’s not that into it. If I were you, I’d keep dating other women. You’re too focused on you and where you stand with her. You want a woman who really wants to be with you, who’s really excited, who’s going out of her way to be with you.

Photo by iStock.com/sakkmesterke

You’re still acting like a woman, even though you’re rationalizing and telling yourself you’re not. So, you need to back off even more. I know it’s counter intuitive. It’s against what everything is telling you, but if you look at her actions, you’re not really that big of a priority to her.

You want a girl who wants to be with you all the time. If that’s the outcome that you want, you should be entertaining other possibilities and continuing to date. Even if she brings up getting together and being more serious, if you’re only seeing each other a couple of times a month, she’s just acting like the occasional friends with benefits or fuck buddy. So if she brings it up, tell her you need to see each other more than two or three times a month for you to want to commit to her. She needs to show she wants you, she misses you, she values what you have together. Again, the relationship has to be the woman’s idea.

Whatever amount of contact initiation you’re doing, cut it in half and see how she reacts. Because the idea is, if you can completely stop all contact initiation, and slowly back off, remember scarcity creates value, then every time you get together, it’s her idea.

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“A man’s mission and purpose must be his first priority in life. Something that is compelling that he is trying to create or accomplish, that takes ambition, hard work, perseverance and passion. This is what makes a man masculine and attractive to women. Without it, a woman will not trust his masculine core enough to relax, submit willingly and follow his lead. It’s a sense of duty that compels a man to go off to war when his woman wants him to stay. A man does what he must without exception. A woman in love wants a man’s attention all the time. A woman with low romantic interest will make little to no effort to get a man’s attention. A man who is focused on his mission and purpose in life doesn’t have to earn a woman’s attention. She gives it to him without asking, because she loves, values and respects him for being a real man.”

~ Coach Corey Wayne

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Published on May 20, 2019

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