I Married The Woman From Hell

How to meet the right woman by learning which types of women you should avoid, from a man who says that he married the woman from hell.

In this video coaching newsletter, I interview Anthony “Dream” Johnson, the President of the Manosphere. He shares some of the painful lessons he learned that he first discussed in his YouTube video titled, “Marrying Medusa: How To Survive A Female Psychopath.” After four years of being together with his girlfriend, and wife of two years, in what he thought was a happy monogamous marriage, he discovered that she had been living a double life. She was serial cheating on him with other men and also moonlighting as a hooker for extra cash.

If you thought the guy from my video, “Betrayed By The Perfect Woman” had it rough, listen to what happened to Anthony. We go through red flags to look out for, the great life lessons he learned and how it made him a better man.

COREY: I have a special guest today, Anthony Dream Johnson, president of The Manosphere. Welcome, and thanks for coming by.

You’ve probably heard me say this before, no matter how bad you think you’ve got it in life, there’s always somebody that’s got it worse. And if you remember a video I did in the past week called “Betrayed By The Perfect Woman,” it was a guy that had been dating this girl for about three years and he found out after he had a kid with her and merged their families that she was a sugar baby.

She had been selling nude pictures of herself since she was seventeen, and she’s now twenty-five. She had several men giving her money, and I guess some of them she was sleeping with. As you can imagine, the dude was pretty devastated.

The first time a dude dates what he considers a unicorn or a smokeshow, he thinks I hit the fucking lottery. We make all our decisions based on our emotions and we use logic and reason to justify our purchase. And because she was hot, he gave her a lot of credit that she hadn’t earned.

With that said… you thought that story was crazy, wait until you hear what Anthony’s got to say.

ANTHONY: You mentioned, there’s always somebody out there that’s had it worse. What’s interesting about my story is, I’ve had this leadership position in The Manosphere for a long time. Before I met my ex-wife, and obviously since then, since the presidency and stuff, so the fact that this happened to me, just looking at it on an observational basis, that was kind of fascinating in itself.

That this would happen to someone like me, in the middle of a lot of speakers like you, that have a lot of good messages for men that are legitimately controversial, and strong, and positive. So at a base level, for this to happen to someone like me was a big surprise to a lot of people.

When I gave the speech, a lot of fans were initially confused because they didn’t even know she wasn’t at the conference. They thought she was interviewing somebody or something like that because that’s what she’s been doing for us for a couple of years. So this was a Manosphere community thing, which was kind of fascinating to happen.

COREY: Yeah, you’re supposed to be immune. It’s not supposed to happen to you.

ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s right. I was surrounded by buys who were legitimate, a lot of these speakers, and not just coaches and things like that, but other speakers too, doctors, FBI agents, Navy SEALS — a lot of cool people. But a lot of these guys are just absolute slayers of women. A lot of these speakers have notch counts that are 200, 300, and 400. So whether you approve of that or not morally, these guys have real experience with women that is not normal. The average guy in America has a notch count of like 7 or so over a lifetime, according to the CDC.

Anyway, to get back to the experience itself and the story of of marrying the woman from hell… I have a speech on this experience, and it’s gone viral. It’s got about 400,000 views, going in on half a million soon. And it’s called “Marrying Medusa: How To Survive A Female Psychopath.” The title alone is super triggering, and the story is interesting, there’s a good hook at the beginning, and your fans can actually go watch this on YouTube.

I think one of the reasons that it went viral isn’t just that I was this figure running a conference and a YouTube channel and all that, that dealt with a lot of these issues — dating, relationships, masculinity and all these things. It’s probably the most intense presentation on this experience ever happening to a man that was then presented in public, without being a celebrity or something like that. I’m not like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, that kind of shit show going on right now. But I was a young man that a lot of people could relate to.

In this story, I gave the facts on what happened as best as I could for like two hours in a formal TED Talk style presentation. And it was pretty bad. The stuff we’ll get into, it was fucking bizarre and gross and horrifying, even for guys who had been through something similar. Some of the guys were in tears just hearing this stuff, on an empathy level, and a lot of guys could relate to me.

It basically was a nightmare. It’s more complex than that though, because a lot of it was a good time. I mean this chick was super hot, we had a really good time, the sex was crazy. But let me back up here.

In a span of ten days, which was four years ago exactly, I went from thinking that my wife was monogamous and loyal — we had been married for two years and had dated for two and a half before that — and I found out she was cheating with one guy from pictures, then I found out she had been cheating with a lot of guys the whole time time. I got her to admit this. And then I found out that she had been a prostitute for a long time, an escort.

She called herself a high-end call girl. These days you would see this as sugar dating, but really escorting was what she was doing. She did this before I met her in other relationships, she did it when we were dating, and I found out she doing it when we were married. She didn’t need the money. At the end of the day, I think she did it for kicks and things like that, the excitement of it and the cash.

I believe firmly that she had a Cluster B personality disorder. A lot of guys that go through these toxic relationships that have this super bizarre shit that happens, it’s not like a regular relationship that kind of went south and there was a bad breakup. These are really bad breakups. These are epic.

In the video you just did recently, the guy you were talking about, it sounds like he was dating a single mom, he got married to her or he knocked her up.

COREY: They didn’t get married. I think they were living together. They had a kid together, and when he met her, she had just had a baby from some other guy who supposedly was a horrible boyfriend, a horrible human being.

ANTHONY: Oh, cry me a river, yeah.

COREY: He just kind of abandoned her and she’s going to raise the kid on her own without him because she’s a strong, liberated and independent woman. And the reality, because he started talking to one of the ex-boyfriends, was she was doing the same shit to him. But the guy she had the kid with has no idea that he’s the father of her child. I guess it was one of her Johns that she was hooking up with and got knocked up by. So there’s a dude walking around that has a son, and he has no idea.

ANTHONY: A lot of these guys that go through these really toxic relationships, they get roped up in this nightmarish stuff. I basically woke up one day to discover that my wife was a prostitute. This was shocking. I don’t think her family knew this. The family was really surprised to know this. I think the brother knew she was promiscuous, but I don’t think they knew she was a hooker. This was a big shock to her family. I mean, holy shit. And to me as well, and my friends.

When a lot of these guys get roped into these relationships, these women are not bad women that act out. They have personality disorders. Maybe they inherited it through genetics. Maybe they had a tough childhood, sexual abuse, things like that, that led to trauma that went unresolved. Then it eventually dominated how they think, act and behave. So my ex-wife had a wedding ring on and thought it was okay to go out and suck dick for cash. Most wives with a wedding ring on would not… this is not normal. This isn’t just regular cheating. This is cheating for cash.

COREY: She had bills to pay man.

ANTHONY: I know, right? People said I should have kept her and pimped her out basically. But this is disordered behavior. This is malignant behavior that destroys relationships. It destroys lives. Fortunately we didn’t have any kids together, and also protected myself legally. I never got legally married to her.

I’m firmly opposed to any kind of legal marriage in the West today. I support the position of Senator Rand Paul and former Congressman Ron Paul that marriage should be a private ceremony, a private institution, and the government should have very limited involvement in it. Maybe for example if you have a contract or a union thing going on. That’s it.

The way we do marriage today with government heavily involved, I think it’s all a bunch of nonsense. And as a result, men get screwed over in divorce court and felony court every day. I didn’t want to go through that. Being a part of the Manosphere and running the conference, I knew enough from the pickup artists and the men’s rights guys. It was like, something’s really off with marriage today in the West, and I’m not okay with that. I didn’t want to get involved with that, regardless the chick.

You know, I thought of course, she was amazing. I though she was this unicorn, love of my life, all that. A lot of that though was fake. That was her playing to my values, playing to what I wanted well beyond the level of what would be considered healthy. A woman maybe adopting what a man wants and responding to that.

COREY: She just basically told you what you wanted to hear. And you were predisposed to believe it.

ANTHONY: Yeah. She told me what I wanted to hear at a really extreme level. Like her behavior wasn’t just promiscuous, it was criminal. You know, prostitution in Florida is illegal. This isn’t Nevada.

So the behavior that personalities do tends to be really exaggerated, almost cartoonish. And that’s what she did. The rampant lying, the rampant cheating, the prostitution, all this stuff. It’s very abusive behavior at a really bizarre level, just like what that guy went through. It wasn’t just lying a little bit about this. She had a whole life hidden, my my ex-wife.

This was a whole double life. So much so, that when we split up, or when I found this out, I thought she had a split personality disorder, a multiple personality disorder or something like that because it was so characteristic, as she presented herself, that persona. It was like, this is nuts. You have to be fucking crazy to be married and go suck dick for cash. Like, who does this? It’s really rare that that happens.

It’s been four years now. I’ve been single ever since. And I intend to keep it that way for a little while longer. I look forward to getting in a relationship in the future at some point. One where the chick is not a crazy, Cluster B clusterfuck as we call it. Cluster B being the spectrum of personality disorders that are considered dramatic by the APA, the American Psychological Association.

COREY: Who’s idea was it to become exclusive initially? Who brought that up?

ANTHONY: She did, I think. Yeah.

COREY: After how long of dating?

ANTHONY: About a month.

COREY: When was the first red flag? Where you go, somethings not right there.

ANTHONY: Let’s go into that. There were many red flags. There were some things about her that were positive, like genuinely. I would consider them green flags. For example, she didn’t have a ton of shoes. Most chicks have fifty pairs of shoes. It’s nuts to me. She didn’t. She had ten or something. I was like, that’s reasonable. She had a house that was put together and it was clean. And that was not just at the beginning. That was consistent for years.

COREY: She was older than you too, right?

ANTHONY: She was older than me, yeah. That was a big mistake.

COREY: How many years older was she?

ANTHONY: Seven. She looked young though. A lot of people thought I was older than she was. Yeah, but there were plenty of red flags like that. I moved in with her really fast after we started dating. My lease ended on my place, and it was you know, “convenient.” That’s how a lot of guys get roped into that stuff. Women with personality disorders tend to push that stuff too.

You know how you mentioned earlier, women are good at seeing through your bullshit and finding chinks in your armor. Women with personality disorders, borderline or antisocial personality disorders are like that to the max. They will not only find the weak links you have and rip them open, but will generate more if they can. They find insecurities, magnify and amplify them, so they’re very destructive.

COREY: So it keeps you guessing and doubting yourself?

ANTHONY: They want you to, yeah.

COREY: Like, maybe I did something wrong. Maybe I was a little bit of a jerk and maybe I should apologize.

ANTHONY: They want to distort your sense of reality between what’s right and wrong and what’s true and what’s false. They’ll gaslight the hell out of you, through the roof. So it’s a lot of very negative, destructive behavior, and it’s their own unresolved trauma mixing with some of yours. But they are the active initiators of this stuff, and they are predatory.

One of the things I mentioned in the speech that people found pretty interesting is, most guys look at the sexual marketplace, they look at a girl and they want to — this is super common in The Manosphere and beyond that– they rank a girl 1 -10. If she’s a ten, she’s a supermodel, she’s super hot. She’s exactly what they want across a variety of factors: physicality and personality, boobs, butt, looks, age, whatever the case is. Down to one, they’re overweight, ugly, all that stuff.

I think that’s actually a mistake, and I think that women with personality disorders actually represent negative value to your life. So, if you look at it like a diagram, you have ten, zero (if they’re hideous), then you have a negative spectrum.

COREY: It goes into the energy vampires.

ANTHONY: They’re vampires, exactly. I call them sharks, like sharks swimming in the depths of the ocean. But they really are predatory and they’re dangerous to your life. Much more so than normal women even could be. Even considering things like false rape allegations, false domestic violence allegations. Women like this, and men too, are like vipers. They’re dangerous. The possibility for cheating is way higher, relationship abuse, emotional abuse, false allegations.

I was worried about that when I split up with her. In Florida for example, there’s a two-year statute on some of these false allegations, so for the first two years I was like, holy shit, is she going to falsely accuse me of whatever because she’s pissed about the video? She is aware of the video, of course, and she wants it taken down, which I’m like, nope.

I think women with personality disorders, they’re a chunk of the population, just like men. They say up to fifteen percent of people have Cluster B personality disorders, and it’s not always obvious, you know? Some of these chicks will have a bunch of tattoos, they have very obvious daddy issues, and they’re kind of unhinged. Those are lower functioning versions of this, but not all of them are like that.

Some women have these disorders and they’re higher functioning. They’re able to navigate, like my ex-wife, for whatever reason — smart, clever, motivated, whatever the case is.

COREY: Tattoos?

ANTHONY: Zero tattoos.

COREY: I’ve personally found, the more tattoos a girl has, the higher they are on the crazy scale.

ANTHONY: In a way that you can see. That’s the problem with some of this. She had zero tattoos before I knew her and beyond.

COREY: This is coming from a guy who’s had several girlfriends that had tattoos. It’s not that I don’t like women who like tattoos, but when I compare them versus women I dated that had none, and had good relationships with their dads, they’re pretty level-headed. The ones that had tattoos, the father was missing or they had several fathers.

ANTHONY: I kind of like girls that have tattoos. Now these things you’re saying is true. The issue is girls who are showing you their trauma, physically expressing it on their body by marking up an organ, their skin. And that has problems like you’re saying, and I agree with you. The issue is, if they have those problems and they don’t express them in a way that you see, they hide them. And those are the ones that are most dangerous. They’re covert narcissists, they’re not overt.

People claim Trump’s a narcissist and all, and I disagree with that. But at minimum, he’s expressing it openly and outwardly and it’s obvious. He is who he is. You know, he makes fun of people and all the stuff he does.

COREY: Yeah, he doesn’t take shit from anybody. If you hit him, he’s going to hit you back twice as hard. That’s just his philosophy.

ANTHONY: Narcissism, I don’t think it’s a disorder, but the way he expresses narcissism on purpose, for strategy or whatever he’s doing in his life, whatever goal he has, business or presidents, he’s expressing it openly and outwardly. It’s overt. It’s the covert narcissists, male and female, that are a lot more dangerous.

They can worm their way into your life, into your head and into your value system, and whatever trauma or weaknesses you have, they can fester these problems in you, which can be good for you long-term if you survive. But as you probably know, guys kill themselves a lot of the time. At least compared to women, they kill themselves at 500% the rate that women do.

COREY: I’ve gotten a shit-ton of emails over the years from guys that told me my book, my work was what kept them from offing themselves. But then they hear stories like this and they’re like, Oh fuck. It wasn’t me. I wasn’t the problem, I just made a bad choice. And then you give them the skills that they need to make a good choice and find a good woman so they can have a good relationship, and it completely changes the paradigm.

ANTHONY: I’ll be straight with you man. The first time I ever had any serious thought of suicide in my life was walking around my neighborhood, as I was packing up my shit and moving out from the Medusa, and I was like, Wow. I fucking married a hooker. And this was not an accident. This was on purpose. And that was emotionally very traumatic for me. For the first time in my life, I had very serious emotional trauma from a relationship like that. Everything before that was peanuts compared to that.

That was devastating. This was a woman that I lived with over four years, was married to. I loved her, you know. She was my wife. And she was out fucking sucking dick for cash on the side the whole time. Not all the time. This wasn’t a weekly activity I don’t think, but it was consistent every few months when she needed to get some extra cash or for excitement or whatever the fuck the reason was. The validation.

COREY: So she just choked a couple of chickens here and there and made some quick cash?

ANTHONY: It’s ironic you bring that up for reasons I’ll tell you when we get done filming that I can’t say on camera, but yeah, she choked some chickens.

But like you mentioned, there were some things, you know she had not weird piercings, she wasn’t covered head to toe in tattoos, there wasn’t anything weird like that. She was not overweight. She was put together. She stayed fit the whole time we were together. A super tradwife too. That was one of those things too. She knew I wanted that kind of traditional life. She played up to that to the max.

A lot of guys don’t know this, because I didn’t mention that in the speech, but she cooked and cleaned and you know, “stomach full, balls empty” to the max. We fucked every day for like four and a half years. She would cook this extravagant stuff. So, in some ways it was a nightmare, and in other ways I had a fucking great time.

COREY: She was able to completely compartmentalize your life.

ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s one of the reason’s it’s so fucking bizarre. She would literally go fuck guys in Naples, and then on the way home — she was good at covering her tracks so I wouldn’t get suspicious — she would go to Whole Foods after, and she’d drop like $300-400 at Whole Foods almost exclusively on stuff for me. Like organic, gluten-free, grass-fed, the most expensive shit you can imagine.

COREY: Showering you with praise and gifts.

ANTHONY: For years, man. That’s what kept the illusion going.

COREY: So when she really fucked up, she would spend a lot of money on you?

ANTHONY: Yeah. I don’t know if she felt guilty or not. Maybe she didn’t. But she would make all this cash, and then she would just blow it on me, like 80% of it. So I kind of got paid. She would fuck for cash, and then she would pay me with gifts and shit from it.

So at the end of the day, I lost no money with my divorce, so to speak, the separation, and I made out pretty cash positive for years with this chick. She just kept making money and blowing it on me left and right, whatever the motivations behind that were — maybe several. It probably wasn’t singular.

It was a really wild experience. It’s a period of my life that I’ll never forget. I mean how many times do you get married to a hooker in Vegas? We got married in Vegas.

COREY: What other kinds of red flags did you see along the way? Were there things you saw in the beginning where you were like, something that’s not right about that, but you just dismissed it?

ANTHONY: There were a couple I didn’t know how to interpret. For example, when she didn’t have tattoos, I didn’t understand why. I think it’s because she has NPD. She has a narcissistic personality disorder, so she’s obsessed with her appearance to a ridiculous and unhealthy degree. So, tattoos interfere with that. That’s the reason she didn’t get tattoos. Not because of trauma. She hid the trauma, and expressed it in other ways, like cheating, prostitution and stuff like that.

Tattoos aren’t as important as why someone has or doesn’t have them, which is what I realize now. That’s advice people need to hear, but it’s not easy to understand and apply in real life. You’re responsible for applying it, and it’s complicated sometimes. And this is a good example of that.

I know chicks who are way less crazy than my ex-wife that have a bunch of tattoos. They just kind of own it. It’s who they are. They’re marked up because they were traumatized, or whatever.

Another one, I asked her early on, because one of our speakers talked about this and I liked it, he said always ask a woman what her relationship is like with her father. So early on, the first or second date, I asked her and she popped back, Oh, he died years ago, which was true. And I had never had a girl that I wanted to bang before, or one I wanted to date say that to me, because the dad was always alive. I was young at the time, twenty-two when I met her, so I was like oh shit. I felt like I had stepped on a landmine.

So, factually that was true. Her dad had died years before I met her, like ten years or something like that. But I didn’t know how to handle that. It wasn’t until a year or two later that we got more into the relationship she had with her father and what that was like. So, I asked a good question early on that men should ask generally, but I was so young and inexperienced with that specific kind of question that I didn’t know how to handle it.

Of course, not having a father is a deep wound in someone. And she wasn’t that old. She was thirty at the time.

COREY: She never talked about the relationship she had with him?

ANTHONY: Well, she didn’t want to get into it because it was so painful, which was partly true. It’s just that later on I found out how dysfunctional it was, and by that point we had already been together for a year.

COREY: Yeah, that’s one of the big things man. Women who love their dads, they’re proud of them, they talk about them… and if you’ve got a woman that’s evasive, you’ve got to pay attention.

ANTHONY: So, the death was the tool to be evasive about it. Legitimately, that’s a sensitive issue, if your parent is fucking dead. I’m just popping off, asking kind of randomly about that, so it was a red flag I missed. I didn’t understand how to navigate it at that point.

COREY: Girls that have good relationships with their dads… if they’re on social media and they’ve got pictures of their dads or they talk about their dads glowingly, they fucking love the shit out of them because they look up to them and they admire them. But if it’s just a black hole and you can’t get any information…

ANTHONY: Well, the relationship with the father is going to be how they view men. That’s the longest running male relationship in their life. So, without that, because he died or it was abusive or whatever, it’s a bad thing.

COREY: And there were no uncles or grandfathers that she was close to or anything?

ANTHONY: I actually met her grandfather at one point up in Michigan. She was close with him, but it wasn’t like a father relationship.

COREY: In other words, when she was in a jam or needed advice, she’s not going to pick up the phone and call him?

ANTHONY: Correct. She was close with her grandma too, but her grandma died two or three years before I met her.

But some other red flags… she was an RN, a registered nurse, which is honestly kind of a red flag. I’ve dated a bunch of nurses since then, and they all tend to be a little weird and kind of screwy. I didn’t understand that at the time. She was a hairstylist, a nurse, she was also a massage therapist at the Ritz. You know a 5-star hotel.

COREY: I’ll be getting a lot of shit comments from nurses going, Fuck you. Nurses are great! That doesn’t mean all of them. Some of them.

ANTHONY: Of course not. But generally, I’ll tell you now, almost every nurse I bang has fake tits. And I’m a big fan. I think fake tits are wonderful. The issue is, why do you have them outside of a relationship? Medusa did not have fake tits when I met her. But in the relationship, she did get fake tits, which I was like, Fuck yeah. It’s fucking great! She paid for them. I didn’t pay for them.

COREY: Actually she didn’t pay for them.

ANTHONY: Aww dude, that’s right. She was missing $500-600 for the surgery, and she asked me to loan her $500-600 and we had the convention coming up, so I said I can’t do that right now. I have a lot of expenses going on. Just ask your sister or your brother, you’ll be fine. She was going to stay with her sister for it out in California, and she did, so I just assumed that she would do that.

I found out later — I found the fucking text conversation — she actually went to L.A., where she got the surgery, and she fucked a guy the night before the surgery for $500. I found this out years later, but I was like holy shit. Even the specific $500. I was like, you’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

So we were talking about red flags and stuff, there were numerous ones like that. And those were kind of mixed in with some green flags, like she doesn’t have a crazy amount of shoes, she had zero tattoos. And at face value, those things are good. At the end of the day, I did not have the experience with women or in life to navigate some of the more complex ones where she was hiding things or compensating for things too.

And example would be the elaborate dinners and grocery shopping she would do after she fucked somebody like that for cash.

COREY: So those were like little intermittent extravagances that would happen? And now looking back on it you can say that’s probably after she just fucked somebody else because she felt guilty about it.

ANTHONY: Exactly.

COREY: She’s just trying to make up for it.

ANTHONY: It’s a way to compensate for that. And then she’d blow me and all this stuff, whatever. It was a bizarre experience man. But I learned a lot from it. I’m glad it happened. I didn’t get any STDs from it, thank god.

When I figured out she was a prostitute, I immediately went to get checked. When they called me, I actually started crying. A week later I got the results and I had zero STDs. I thought I had something. I didn’t know if I had HIV, Herpes.

COREY: You thought you were going to be like Charlie Sheen, huh?

ANTHONY: Yeah, exactly. I didn’t know. Dude, this hit me so fast, like a ton of bricks. It was just wild. But at the end of the day, I learned a lot about women. I learned a lot about myself. It was a pivotal experience in my life. And the speech is the expression of that. I think that’s part of the reason it’s gone viral.

It was something very relational too for men to learn from, and it was very raw. I curse a lot in the video, maybe a little too much, but it’s an expression of the passion and the intensity of what I went through.

COREY: Yeah, lots of cursing happens on my channel, to my demonetization detriment.

ANTHONY: I take on all challengers for dropping F-bombs, and I tend to win.

But I’m glad I made the mistakes I made with her, with the red flags for example, because ultimately that relationship was long-term useless. I should never been in it in the first place, at minimum due to the age difference.

COREY: Quite frankly, in your line of work, the way I look at things is, what happened happened, and it couldn’t have happened any other way. It had to happen, because that makes you a better speaker, a better coach, a better teacher. Because now you’ve got some kid, maybe 16, 18, 19 years old and they hear it, and then five years from now, they start dating a girl, and those little things are happening and they’ll say I’ll remember when President Johnson experienced that.

ANTHONY: Well, I knew the speakers at our conventions for years. They talked about energy vampires and women who were toxic for you, not good for you, and I would hear that, and I didn’t really understand it. Looking back on it, I can see why I didn’t understand it, because I never experienced it at a very visceral, in your face level.

I would bang all of these girls in college, but the worst ones were just like wild party chicks. They were just unhinged and shit, with tattoos and whatnot. Which comparatively is not that bad. Versus a professional hooker who is good at manipulating men, getting money from them and doing all this toxic shit.

So I had to learn the hard way that there are dangerous women out there. There are dangerous people in general. That when you put your dick in a woman that you like and you want to have sex with and make a family with, literally reproduce with, that makes you compromise. It puts you in a very vulnerable position.

COREY: Because now you’re attached to an outcome.

ANTHONY: That’s right. And we literally got married. I mentioned the private marriage. We never legally got married, but we did have a wedding. We had both families come out. We had a honeymoon in Hawaii for a week. We traded rings, vows and she took my last name.

So we had all of the mechanics of a marriage, minus the legal entanglements that I refuse to get in. She pushed for that, and I was like, it’s not happening. Get the fuck outta here. And I got push-back from my family too, and her family on that. I was like, I don’t care. Take it or leave it. This is what we’re doing.

COREY: Good for you for standing your ground man.

ANTHONY: Thanks. Yeah, a few people were supportive.

COREY: That’s masculinity there. You’re not willing to compromise, even if that means you leave. I have a friend of mine back when we were in our twenties and he was engaged. His then fiancee was giving him shit about something, kind of in a way threatening about something, and he was just like, give me my ring back. She was taken aback and started crying, and he was going to do what he wanted. He was a good guy, and he’s still with her to this day, almost fucking thirty years later. He’s one of the few guys I listen to when we talk about dating or relationships.

ANTHONY: Nice. Well, him putting his foot down is probably part of the reason that relationship has stood that long. Having the boundaries and the enforcement of those boundaries too.

COREY: He’s gotten softer a little bit, which happens to everybody, because women don’t stop. They’re always going to test you, always going to test your strength.

ANTHONY: Well, testosterone declines over time too

COREY: That too, but you know resistance is futile. They’re not going to stop. It’s just they’re driven that way. Feminine energy is driven to test masculine strength. If you act like a bitch, you’re going to get treated like one. That’s the harsh reality whether you like it or not.

ANTHONY: Well, now we’re going to make women great again.

COREY: Yeah, now we’re going to make women great again at the convention.

So, tell me about how it all unraveled.

ANTHONY: Things at the end were pretty rocky anyway, but we still had our wedding anniversary. It didn’t look like I was going to wake up in a few weeks and find out she was a fucking cheating hooker.

COREY: So you were already not getting along before it blew up?

ANTHONY: At the end, yeah for a few months.

COREY: So the honeymoon period was definitely over, and you were going to see her for what she really was?

ANTHONY: It was coming through. This is what happens in relationships with covert narcissists. They can only keep the mask on for so long. Now, that depends on their motivation and other factors like, how competent are they? How smart are they?

In her case, I think she was highly motivated, for whatever reason, from pain and trauma. One of her friends said, her marriage to me was a scream for normalcy. She had been not normal for so long, she had been a prostitute for so long, had lived this kind of double life and she wanted to get away from it. And she saw me as a pathway or tool for doing that, along with whatever other motivations and fucked up shit she had going on.

But eventually, the mask slips. Whether that’s six months in, two years in, or in my case, a little bit over four years in. Things started to unravel.

COREY: How? What did that look like? What specifically happened? Was there fighting? Were you not getting along? Was she being bitchy to you?

ANTHONY: Well, I don’t even know where to begin. There’s some stuff I can’t share on camera because I don’t have the evidence for it, so I don’t want to get defamation stuff.

COREY: Yeah, but laymen’s terms. Give us like the Cliff Notes version. The people watching this are going to go, how do I spot a girl like this? That’s really going to be the takeaway. Obviously, the red flags are you got too serious too fast.

ANTHONY: Yes, which is bad in general, but it’s really bad when a woman is pushing full speed, no brakes for that stuff. That’s a symptom of personality disorder. When you have a girl that likes you too much and is kind of digging into it too much, there’s an agenda behind it. It’s fake basically.

COREY: So what are the red flags you missed? For the 18, 22 year old guy that’s watching this. He doesn’t know it yet, but in a couple of weeks he’s going to meet a similar girl. It’s like, what should he be on the lookout for?

ANTHONY: Number one, and this is a very old school saying, but it’s true. If it sounds or looks too good to be true, it probably is. So in this case, her being older was a problem in itself. Her being just this girl who happened to be single, who was hot, and who was really into me, it was just too much, too fast. Especially with the values and telling me what I wanted to hear. Not only telling me, but acting to me what I wanted to hear.

I even had a friend early on, when my best friends met her, we did a camping trip together. He actually said to me, and this is common with people in relationships with somebody with a personality disorder, he said dude, she’s like a female version of you. And he meant that sincerely, I think as a compliment at the time.

The problem is she was not a female version of me. I don’t think you should want that anyway. Men and women are different. You don’t need a female version of yourself. I don’t think that’s a healthy relationship to have. It’s okay to be different from your partner or your girlfriend.

COREY: You have to have similar goals or values or you’re going to be clashing all the time.

ANTHONY: You should, yeah. But there’s room for differences too, and they can be substantial. You don’t have to have all the same hobbies and shit like that.

COREY: Yeah, I had a girlfriend that was a socialist, and we butted heads on so many things. We saw the world completely opposite in a lot of ways. Trying to have that discussion, it doesn’t work. I don’t have the patience for that. Maybe I’m a dick for that, but I don’t care.

ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s too much. My friend making that comment though, that to me, this was something I studied that discussed these kinds of toxic relationships. It’s a really early sign that your friends will notice.

COREY: So in other words, the red flag is she’s putting on an act? She’s so much like you, she’s too much like you and that should be concerning.

ANTHONY: Yes, exactly. Especially if your friends are noticing it. Not just you, because you’re in the middle of it, and you’re the target. This is literally predatory behavior. You’re the target, and you’re emotionally compromised because you’re physically compromised. Your pair bonding, the hormones, the orgasms, all that stuff.

If she’s too much like you and your friends are noticing it, that’s a big red flag. Even if they don’t see it as a bad thing, you should. She should be different than you. She shouldn’t be the exact same. I don’t think she should be a socialist if you’re a MAGA Trump supporter.

I know your fans might not like it, especially the girls, but massage therapists tend to be really odd. They tend to have weird beliefs. And she even told me this. Like all her friends, she was like they’re all nuts. Well, honestly, they are. I’ve met other massage therapists, and they tend to be into really weird stuff. It’s a free country, do your thing.

It’s like the hairstylists. Hairstylist girls are always like kind of wild. Good for a night. Maybe not good for a relationship or building a family.

COREY: Not all cases though.

ANTHONY: Of course not, but a lot of them. This is another one. Its the same way you don’t intentionally date strippers. They are notorious for having unlimited problems. Every guy I ever know who’s been banging strippers or dated them or worked in a nightclub, they will tell you female strippers have unlimited problems, so you don’t date them. If you want to bang one, alright man. Take your swing, go for it. But you don’t want to build a family with one usually. They’re just crazy as shit.

But she was a nurse and a massage therapist, which is a double whammy of crazy. So take the profession seriously. If she’s working somewhere, what is she doing? Technically, if she’s using her body and her physicality to get money in her job, that’s a bad thing.

If a girl is a bartender and she’s constantly wearing pushup bras to get more tips, it’s been normalized for her to use sexuality to get money and make it super transactional. Not like a relationship where you’re trading values, but she’s literally trading sexuality for cash.

Now, that’s not prostitution, but that’s not healthy. It’s not healthy for someone you want to build a relationship with in my opinion. It’s something to watch out for. Just like tattoos right? It may not be the end of the world. Maybe a few bartenders are worth dating, but a lot of them are not because they’re constantly trading, when they’re women anyway, sexuality for money. You don’t want that in your life.

COREY: So those last few months you were together, were you just not getting along? What was different? What had changed?

ANTHONY: She tried this early on and then she tried it later. Six months after we got married, she tried shutting the sex off to whenever she wanted. Whereas up to that point, this had been for 2 1/2 – 3 years up to this point, we had sex every day, whenever I wanted.

You know, I’m young and super horny like that, high libido. And she just had this hissy fit and she didn’t want to fuck like that anymore. I told her, I didn’t sign up for that. I love you, but I’m not okay with that. We’ve been having sex every day for years, and we’re going to keep doing that or I’m going to leave tomorrow, like in 24 hours. I’m going to end this whole thing, and we’re fucking done. She of course had this huge hissy fit, screaming and shit. I was like, whoa. But of course, it ended up we kept fucking after that.

She tried this again at the end. It was kind of a repeat of the six-month thing, because a lot of this is planned, right? It’s all fake, her playing to what I want to hear, doing what I want. It’s not real, and it’s not genuine passion.

COREY: Did you feel she was never in love with you and she didn’t care? It was an act on her part?

ANTHONY: That’s a good question. That’s something I’ve thought a lot about. I think early on it was a lot more genuine. Just the newness of it and stuff like that. That could be bullshit too though.

COREY: I have a good book you should read, “How To Be A 3% Man.”

ANTHONY: I ordered my copy today actually. It is a really good question. Part of why it’s complicated to answer is, I don’t know if she’s even capable of loving someone genuinely and in a meaningful way — in an adult, mature way. And that’s not just unique to her. That’s specific to anyone with a personality disorder, that makes relationships basically impossible.

One of the key characteristics of a woman with borderline personality disorder is abandonment issues, usually from a dad. People say ‘daddy issues’ in every day language, but really it’s abandonment issues. And basically, they’re so dysfunctional in their personality and their psychology, they make it impossible to be in a long-term relationship with them. They engage in behaviors that make it impossible to stay with them.

In her case for example, I told her early on I have zero tolerance for violence, domestic abuse, and zero tolerance for cheating. If you ever hit me or cheat on me, I’m gone immediately. Which in the end is what I had to do. She cheated on every boyfriend she ever had as far as I know. That’s what she told me. She told me flat out. And of course, that was never disclosed, because that would have made me watch out for it.

COREY: Yeah, you found that out at the end.

ANTHONY: Yeah, I found that out at the end. She hid a lot of stuff too. I think the mask was slipping. She was getting tired of the act for whatever reason it served or whatever she wanted. For example, one of the speakers that married us actually, he said later on he thought a lot of the marriage to me, the wedding specifically too, was to get back at her mom. There was some animosity that we didn’t know about between her and the mom, so marrying me was like, ha-ha, I can do it, and a fuck you or a revenge kind of thing. And I was a pawn for that.

And you mentioned the love thing. They act in ways that make it impossible to date them long-term. In my case I had zero tolerance explicitly for violence and any kind of cheating. What I didn’t understand in telling her this was, it’s good to have clear boundaries and put your foot down like that, but in her case, that was just information.

That was like intel. It was like, oh, now I know what I have to hide. Don’t ever let him know, because there will be no forgiveness, and there wasn’t. The minute I found out she was cheating, I took the ring off in like 10-15 minutes. And within an hour I had announced to my family and friends that we’re done, that’s it. I’m leaving as soon as I can. And I did leave four or five days later.

COREY: Did you see her phone? What was pandora’s box?

ANTHONY: Well, I had a sneaking suspicion without really too much to go on. I just kind of had that gut feeling. Something didn’t feel right. She had a desktop computer that she did her work off of, and I went and looked around, just kind of snooping. And I found nothing, so I let it go for about two weeks, and thought I was being ridiculous and paranoid.

COREY: Always trust your gut.

ANTHONY: About two weeks later I’m like, man something ain’t right. Something feels off. And my gut kept saying, there’s something on this fucking computer that’s going to fucking tell me something I don’t want to hear and I don’t want to see. And this time I ran into a folder I hadn’t seen before. It wasn’t pornographic or anything, but I found pictures of her with this guy.

It was obvious to me right away that they were fucking. They were kissing in one, just kind of intimate pictures like that. And these were pretty recent. These weren’t from a few months ago or something. I found this stuff, and I was fucking furious.

I called my best friend over, the best friend at my wedding, and she was out at a movie with a friend that night. She came home, and as she came in I had the pictures pulled up on her desktop, and I’m just sitting there in this chair. I was like, so how many times did you fuck this guy? She was a deer in the headlights. She absolutely froze.

I had invited my friend over too, because at this point I knew everything was done. I was worried about false dv or false rape, so I was glad he was there.

COREY: As a witness.

ANTHONY: She actually denied everything. It was so obvious too. We were both like, you are so full of shit. Like, obviously you’re fucking this guy. I knew enough about pickup and body languages. It was so obvious to me. About a day and a half later, she finally owned up to it.

She kept trying to keep me in the relationship, but I was like, we’re done. This is not a discussion. So, eventually in desperation or whatever other motivations, she kind of started spilling more truth. “Trickle truth,” as we call it in red pill part of The Manosphere. And eventually it led to, she had been cheating the whole time on and off with all kinds of guys. Then she let it slip, the prostitution thing. I was like, what? Come again? What was that part?

I left a day later anyway, but that little slip is what led me to actually dig through her phone records and email records, and that’s when I found all of the prostitution. This all happened super fast too. This all happened in ten days, from we’re together and no cheating, but I was a little bit suspicious, to one guy, to a bunch of guys, to escort style prostitution.

And then she spent about three months trying to get me back. She didn’t know I knew about the escorting. I kept that in. Until I put the speech out, nobody knew that shit except some of my close friends. But for a few months, she would just keep sending me nudes and elaborate messages, trying to get me back in. Everything imaginable to fucking claw me back in. Find the chink in the armor, and fucking claw me back in.

Fortunately, 1) I had moved to Orlando to put distance in between us. And 2) she didn’t know where I lived. She was trying to find it. And 3) I had good friends and speakers telling me, do not go back to this fucking chick. If you’re firm in what you believe, which they knew I was, and there was cheating, there is no future. So as tempting as it was to go fuck her, you know, all of that kind of relationship trauma and stuff — which a lot of people do, they get roped in like that — I stayed away from it.

She eventually gave up. Then, she got engaged two weeks later.

COREY: To that guy?

ANTHONY: To that guy, yeah.

COREY: And married him for real?

ANTHONY: I think so. I don’t know if it’s legal or not.

COREY: He was probably all happy with himself. I got my dream girl. She was a with a loser, and I totally saved her. I rescued her from her horrible life.

ANTHONY: Oh yeah. Dude, clusterfuck. Now, the funny part is, I put the speech out a couple of days before the wedding, just because I’m a dick. And she found out, and she was screaming and stuff about it to take it down. I’m like, nope. I don’t give a fuck.

At this point, I have no idea what she’s up to. She changed her last name obviously, and her first name, so I have no idea.

COREY: Oh, she changed her first name?

ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s how you can tell the identity crisis, the issues. Changing the first name. That’s pretty whack. She tried that when she was with me. When she changed her last name, she wanted to change her first name. I found that bizarre, and I was like, no. You’re not fucking doing that or we’re done, zero fucking discussion. Unless you have a really, really, really good reason, like your parents named you “Fart” or something, short of that I think it’s pretty weird.

That was a red flag too that I missed. The fact that she even wanted that, I thought that was weird and I put my foot down on it. But I didn’t understand. The want for that is a red flag in itself. Why would you even want that? All of a sudden at thirty years old you want to change your first name? So, after we split up, she went and did that on her own obviously.

COREY: Oh wow. Gotta cover her tracks for the next victim as he comes along.

ANTHONY: It may be because of the speech. I mean, obviously the speech, it has her name in it, which at the time was Marilee Johnson. At this time, I don’t know what her name is. That’s how crazy my ex-wife is. I don’t even know what her fucking name is.

COREY: She literally deleted herself from your life and the internet.

ANTHONY: Yeah, to hide from the speech. This is going to make it hard for her to get a job.

COREY: I had a guy who had a job, that I did a phone session with. He had been with his wife I think like thirty years, and I think they had three or four or maybe it was six kids. I remember he had a lot of kids. And he was just sitting at home one time and his best friend was over. Hid daughter or son was sitting in his best friend’s lap, and he was sitting there going, wow, my kid sure looks a lot like my best friend.

ANTHONY: Oh my god.

COREY: And he was a nice guy, pretty successful. And like I said, he had been with this chick like thirty years, and she was just a nymphomaniac, fucking anyone and everyone. She fucked his business partner. She fucked his neighbors. She fucked all of his friends. She fucked his best friend, who was his best man in his wedding. And out of his five or six kids, two or three of them weren’t even his.

ANTHONY: Wow.

COREY: And it didn’t dawn on him until he recognized, man my kid doesn’t look anything like me but sure looks a lot like my best friend. He confronted her about it, and she of course denied it, but when he went to his other friends that knew, it was like the worst kept secret in the whole neighborhood. Everybody knew she was fucking half of the neighborhood, and he was the last guy to find out.

ANTHONY: I think my ex-wife tried to do that. I don’t think she succeeded, as far as I know, with speakers and friends and things like that. I think though, that she was looking for the opportunity to do that just for the thrill of it and the kicks.

COREY: Payback?

ANTHONY: Yeah.

COREY: How dare you mess up her evil plans?

ANTHONY: Yeah. So, at the end of the day, I don’t know that for a fact, but as far as I know that didn’t happen. But I believe firmly, that was on her mind. She was like a chess player, always looking for openings and opportunities, looking back now with the lens that I have for the relationship. Like a red pill lens, so to speak.

That was another interesting thing too. When it snapped for me who she was, it really gave me a lens to look back on the whole four and a half year relationship, like an autopsy almost. Like a relationship autopsy. And the whole relationship made a lot more sense to me then.

It’s been an evolution since then, a process for understanding it and growing from it, but really it was seeing through all the layers of her masks and the fake personas and all that crap. It was like, whoa. I know have the ability to see four and a half years of reality rather than the fake illusion that she had presented. It was educational — very extreme form of female behavior that I got to be up close and personal with.

COREY: That’s pretty extreme.

ANTHONY: I guess one of the last things I’ll say is that I’m really happy that it happened. In particular too, some of the advice I have followed from is Nathaniel Branden. He was the former lover of Ayn Rand and a therapist. The original version of “Atlas Shrugged” was dedicated to him. Once they split up, she fucking changed that, but the early copies will show that.

Anyway, one of the things he said is that, everything that happened in your life has led to who you are today. You need to own it, for better and for worse. So that experience in part, as you mentioned, has led to who I am today. It was educational, it was a provocative story I got to put it out to the world. I even had Lionsgate reach out to me at one point about doing a TV show for it.

So, it was a hell of an experience. I learned a lot from it. It’s part of my life. You can’t undo it. I’m also happy that I got to make these missing red flag mistakes that I made with her. I got to do that in really what was a useless relationship long-term. It had meaning in my life then, and it has some lingering meaning now, like an after effect, and education and all that.

But I made these mistakes with a woman who I didn’t belong with. I didn’t get any STDs, I didn’t lose any money, nothing too serious like that. No kids or anything. So for how toxic the relationship was and how crazy she was, I made out really good. And I got to make these mistakes, kind of like training wheels, with a woman that ultimately didn’t matter.

In the future, I know the next relationship I get into will be with a much better woman — hard to do worse, but much better — and it will be a more healthy, more positive, more fulfilling relationship. It won’t have any of the kinks and the problems. Well, some of the kinks.

COREY: Hopefully. But the goal is to learn and not make the same mistake over and over.

ANTHONY: Exactly. And I got to make mistakes with a woman that, for any number of reasons, even physically, being older than me, I didn’t belong with her. So it’s a good thing that happened, and it’s a good thing that it happened with her and that I made it out really well.

Also, you mentioned too whether or not she loved me, and that’s a tough question that just from a psychology and mental health perspective. I don’t really know if she’s capable of that with me or anyone. And then, how much was genuine? How much was fake? How much was played up?

Some of that you can look at through with the red pill lens and kind of see through the bullshit, but some of it is so personal and subjective to her that you don’t know. You can’t see inside of her head. You can just see what’s outside — the behavior, the mannerisms, all of these things. So even in the best case scenario, it’s like I really don’t know.

COREY: There’s a part in my book. I call it the attraction level table, and it goes through where, the higher the woman’s attraction, the things she does and you can kind of gauge based on her actions, the things she’s doing and saying, how she feels about you. Because in a long-term relationship, it’s going to go up and down, so it’s really helpful for a lot of guys.

The chapter is called, “It’s All In The Numbers” in my 3% Man book. It’s really helpful for a lot of people in my audience and my clients. Because if she ain’t feelin’ it, she’s just simply not going to do those things.

ANTHONY: Yeah, in The Manosphere, we say that desire cannot be negotiated. It has to be very raw, very natural. Otherwise, if you don’t have that, you don’t have a relationship. It’s just your roommate or something.

COREY: Yep. So what was the title of the whole thing for people to able to find it and watch the whole episode?

ANTHONY: The full title of my speech on YouTube is “Marrying Medusa: How To Survive A Female Psychopath.”

Also, one of our speakers put together a course, so we filmed him recently. It’s not from me. He’s the speaker and gave the course. That course is actually called “Female Psychopaths Surviving and Thriving.” It’s for guys like me who went through a toxic relationship like that, to learn how to heal from that specifically, and move on and do better in life.

Go to FemalePsychopath.com. It’s the same intent — to help men who have been in super toxic relationships. It’s not for just a bad breakup with some girl you met a bar. Like, a really noxious, fucked up relationship where people get hurt, there’s criminal stuff going on, prostitution, sugar babying, shit like that, or violence and beyond.

A lot of men go through it. There’s a good chunk of men and women who have personality disorders that are super toxic and dangerous, and they’re predators. Like imagine the value thing, they’re like a negative. It’s beneath the surface. You’ve got to watch out.

COREY: Haste makes waste as they say?

ANTHONY: Yeah, take things slow.

COREY: Watch being attached to your outcome, because we tend to project our fantasy onto the person that we want, and then we look for reasons to justify why they fit it. Then these little things come up and you’re like, Awww, but the connection’s so great. The sex is amazing. We jive so well. I’m going to move in. I know we’ve only been dating a month, but it’s meant to be. The universe has pre-arranged it. It’s gonna be amazing.

ANTHONY: Yeah, everything’s amazing until it blows up in your face.

COREY: So, you’ve got to take your time. I’ve done so many videos over the years. That’s the biggest problem with a lot of guys is that they’re too fucking impatient. They want their relationship now, they want the marriage now, they want the kids now. They want the business success now, they want the CEO job now. It’s like, you have to go through a set of steps. You can’t put the cart in front of the horse, because if you do, you end up marrying a Medusa.

ANTHONY: That’s right. You know, one of our speakers Nick Sparks used to say that fires that burn fast tend to burn out. Fires that burn slow tend to last quite a bit longer. I agree with you 100%. Like, slow the fuck down, especially for a relationship, but really anything in life. It takes time.

I’ve been running my business now for example for 13 1/2 years. And you know, most businesses fail by ten years, 95% of them or something like that.

COREY: Four or five years is when most of them have failed by.

ANTHONY: That’s right. Yeah, so it takes time. And it takes other things too — courage, dedication, persistence. But really, if you just have patience with these things, I think it works out a lot better.

I’ve been single now for four years. Girls get really curious about that when they find that out. But I think being single for so long is really setting me up for a great relationship, because I’ve been navigating the marketplace in the meantime, watching how the world has been changing, with me too and all this crap with feminism in America.

But also learning about myself, healing from my own experiences and trauma and stuff is growing as a man and figuring out, what do I want? I do want a family and kids and these things, but it’s like okay, at what point, in what way, and with what kind of mother do I want to raise my children? That’s a really serious endeavor to take on.

COREY: It’s a 20+ year commitment.

ANTHONY: That’s right. And I almost fucked that up last time marrying a prostitute in Vegas. So I would prefer to not fuck that up again. I do know for example that the chances for a second marriage and a third are pretty bad, even worse than the first.

Knowing some of the basic stats on that, knowing the challenges as a young man you have to overcome today, there’s a lot on the table to learn about. And at 31, I’m not in a rush. As eager as I am to start a family, I know that it’s more important to be patient and slow the fuck down, take my time, be single as long as I want, and in the meantime have fun. There’s plenty of women out there waiting for me.

COREY: Hang out, have fun and hook up as I always say. The three “Hs.” It’s the magic formula

ANTHONY: People come after me for hooking up with girls still, even though we promote more traditional things for men and women. And I’m like, I didn’t cause these girls to hook up with me. They did this on their own. Especially if they’ve already banged like 20-30 guys. I had nothing to do with you banging these guys. That was 100% your choice as a woman. Now you want me to be number 31. I’m like, alright. I’m down.

COREY: You’re an equal opportunity seducer.

ANTHONY: I don’t take responsibility for other people’s actions. I’m responsible for my choices and my behavior. I was significantly responsible for my experience with Medusa. I walked into that not knowing any better and whatnot. But it’s my job as a young man to know better, and I failed to do that in some ways, and that had consequences.

But it’s the same thing for young women, you know? I’m not responsible for the actions my ex-wife took that I was not even aware of. This is a person who is dedicated to that kind of behavior. She’s not going to change it for anyone, including me, and for anyone else as far as I know.

And young women too today, out hooking up. I want you to change. I think you should do better than that. I think women, for example, should have as much sex as possible over a lifetime with as few men as possible. That seems to be a recipe loosely speaking for happiness for them. But if you don’t want to listen, if you want to bang a bunch of dudes on Tinder, go ahead. You’re going to find out the hard way that that’s probably not a great idea.

COREY: The older you get, the more you appreciate quality relationships and quality people. When you’re younger, especially when I was in my twenties, I had a lot more people I thought were my “friends” but they were really just acquaintances. And as you go through some ups and downs in life, you realize who’s really on your team and who’s just there for the free shit, or the significance, or the clients, or the money or whatever it is that they’re getting from you.

ANTHONY: That was the thing too when I had the divorce, so to speak, and went to Orlando. It was like, who’s going to step up and support me when I was hurting, like the worst, and who’s going to kind of back out of it and move away from it. It was a litmus test for people in my life.

And much to my pleasure, most people stood up very strongly for me. Whatever I needed to help me out. Even Socrates, one of our speakers, gave me a place to live at his house for about two weeks before I found a place to live. He took me in immediately, insisted on it even. He had a newborn baby at the time too. He had a four-week old baby, and I just moved in after divorcing a hooker.

So people stepped up for me and it was good to see that. And that was a result of building strong, positive relationships in my life. People would not just freak out and abandon me at the conference. People thought the conference would fall apart — the convention — because the founder had messed up and married this crazy, NPD hooker. And that was not the case.

The speech has done super well. It’s one of the highest viewed videos on the whole channel. We have videos over a million, but mine has done really well, 400,000, and the conference has moved on. We’ve had half a dozen conferences since then. We’ve had 18 total now. We’ve had bigger and better speakers.

COREY: And what is the website? How do people get in touch with that?

ANTHONY: They go to The21Convention.org and on YouTube they go to https://www.youtube.com/21 or search for 21 Studios.