Why treating a woman like a celebrity causes her to treat you like a fan and leads to lost respect and attraction.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a viewer who is new to my work. He started dating a woman who is going through a divorce, being Mr. Nice Guy and putting her on a pedestal. He bought her gifts and constantly sought her attention, validation and approval.
After a few dates, the last one went sideways when he dropped her off and asked her one of the worst things you can say to a woman. Later, she gave him a BS response for why she was rejecting him, and he asks me to point out where he went wrong. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.
What’s interesting about this email is you really get a good sense of how propaganda and the memes we see in the media, the narrative that’s presented to us about how men and women are supposed to interact, which is obviously dysfunctional and the opposite of reality and what women naturally respond to. And so, this particular guy’s problem is he’s too nice. You could tell he’s a good dude. He seems like a good guy and he wants to do everything right, but he’s too nice, a little too much like a doormat, and he definitely put this girl on a pedestal.
He says some things to her, especially on the last date. Just imagine, he pulls into the driveway and then he asked her this question. I’m going to wait until the end to reveal it. And then he could see her interest drop. She just got completely turned off. And then she sends him this text breaking it off with him, telling him what a great guy and what a great catch he is, and gives him this BS answer for why she doesn’t want to continue seeing him, when it’s pretty obvious it’s really just romantic interest. And this is one of the reasons why men have such a hard time understanding women, because women don’t want to hurt guys’ feelings, and so they’ll tell them an excuse that logically makes sense, but it’s not anywhere close to being based upon reality.
I need some help understanding a woman that is going through a divorce of 18 years, together for 23, to a man that was very condescending, and from little things she said, a little narcissist to her.
You can even see some of the white knight, “I’m going to fix her. I’m going to save her. I’m going to rescue her from her bad marriage.” Save the day. Be the good dude. Be the hero of the story. It’s good to be the hero of the story, but you don’t want to turn into a doormat or a guy that’s begging for her attention.
I want to point out, I had these two dates with her before I came across your work.
So, obviously, we can’t break his balls too much for what he does. But this is how most guys that have watched all of the television and movies over the last 50 years or so, how it affects culture in a negative way. And then when you look at stuff, especially if it was made in the forties, fifties, and maybe the early sixties or late sixties, when you think of some of the movies with Cary Grant like “Charade,” men were masculine, they were playful, they were charming, they bantered and they had deadpan delivery on things. They would say something that was actually pretty funny, but say it with a straight look on their face, to the point where you couldn’t tell if they were messing with you or they were being totally serious. And that’s what’s so great about that kind of humor.
But today, men have been turned into approval seeking girls, and women have turned into stoic men on TV. Women act masculine, men act feminine, and it ruins the sexual polarity. And when you behave the way that you’ve been conditioned to from TV and the movies and society, you’re going to turn women off.
And then what ends up happening is you end up settling for somebody that you’re really not that into, and you’ll do more things right than wrong with somebody that you’re not that into. But then, you’re not going to really have a great relationship, because you’re not that into them. You won’t put your best foot forward. And that affects everything. It affects your family. It affects what happens with your kids. It affects your life, your destiny, what you are able to accomplish and not able to accomplish.
I have watched several of your videos now and purchased 3% Man on audiobook and paper back. I’m 3/4 of the way done with the audio version at this point, so yes, still a green horn. I’m writing below, a bit of what has happened so far and would like to hear your thoughts, opinions, and what you think this woman is going through and if you think she may contact again.
Well, one thing, because I’ve been through his email, he’s just too concerned about being accommodating. He’s treating her like with kid gloves, “Oh, you poor thing. You’ve been through such a hard time. I’m going to save you. I’m going to save you from that bad marriage that you’ve been through.” Instead of, “Do I like this girl? Is she good for me? Is she a fruit loop? Does she keep her word? Is she easygoing? Is she easy to get along with? Can I believe what she tells me? Is she a loyal person?”
Because obviously, the most important thing to us guys is loyalty in a relationship. Is she a loyal person? Is she worth my time? The reality is, as men get older, they tend to peak later, after women do. And so, for women, when they’re hot, and they’re young, and they’re beautiful, and they’re fertile, that’s when they’re going to get the most attention from guys.
And then as they get older, the guys that are their age are looking to date women that are younger. That’s just it’s the way it is. It’s the way it’s always been. Especially if a guy’s looking to have a family, he’s not going to date somebody his age or older, because she’s not going to be able to have kids. It all depends on your outcome and what you want.
My main reason for being here is I have been out of a 5-year relationship now for a year, I started a few online dating profiles about 5 months ago. About 3-4 weeks ago, an amazing woman contacted me on POF. We really hit off and talked for a few days. I gave her my number and told her, when she was comfortable, text me there. A couple of minutes later, that’s how we communicated throughout the week. Very quickly, she asked if I would be interested to meeting up sometime.
So, it shows you probably passed the physical attraction test, and she was ready to get down.
So, she asked if we could go on a date Friday, December 2nd. I chose the place, we met up, and everything was great, great chemistry. I did not kiss her or ask, as she did indicate when we had been talking that it was refreshing that I had not said I was “horny” or want a FWB,” and that I had asked about her kids.
So, you can already see his mindset is, “Oh, I’m Mr. Nice Guy. I’m going to wait. I’m going to withhold my sexual interest,” because he takes that as, “I don’t want to express any sexual interest, because she doesn’t like that.” What happened was these other guys that she’s talking about had no game. There is a time and a place for that. And so you don’t want to say things out of sequence, which obviously I go through in “3%, Man.”
We were there 3 hours. Watching some of your videos now, I realize that was not the man thing to do, and I’m not responsible for protecting her from her past, but letting her feel safe to come to me when she feels right about it.
Yeah, his whole mindset, you can tell he’s approval seeking, “Oh, I hope I can get her to like me. I hope she’ll choose me.”
I had bought her flowers and a gift certificate to a local nursery for landscaping, because she had mentioned that was her passion.
Yeah, that comes off as a bribe for sex and a relationship, especially on a first date. You used to see things like that sometimes in some of the movies in the fifties and sixties. A guy shows up with chocolates, or whatever, in a heart shaped box. That’s approval seeking behavior, and that’s probably some geek that sat in the back of the class that that came up with that, that fantasized about what it would be like to be with his dream girl. “If I just buy her some nice chocolate, she’ll like me, think I’m a nice boy, and give me a good pat on the head.”
(I realize now, that was too soon for that, and I put pressure on her.) She texted me that first night saying it wasn’t fair that I had done that, but it was really sweet.
Yeah, that’s just the kind of thing you do for your girlfriend or your wife, not a first date. It’s overwhelming, it’s too much. It communicates that you really don’t have too much game, and you’re just too nice.
A little bit of a background on her is she is in the middle of a divorce. She was married for 18 years. She had mentioned a few things about her husband being condescending. Thinking back on some other things that she had said, I think he may have been a little narcissistic as well. The next day, she asked if I was available for a couple hours on Sunday.
So, she’s definitely highly interested. The reality is that she wanted to get her freak on, but he was too nice. And she could tell he would get way to attached and she’d just end up breaking his heart.
She asked if I could think of anything to do, so I asked if she would like to go mini golfing or on a hike in a park about 20 minutes away. She chose the hike. She had never been there before. She agreed and asked if we could ride together.
So far, so good. Everything looks swell.
We met up, did the hike, and everything was great.
Oh, man. So, women go out with guys with the attitude of, “Do I like this guy? Is he good for me? Is he a good person?” and with the attitude of “I’m open to whatever’s going to happen. I’m open to him sweeping me off my feet, and I’m open to potentially never seeing this guy again.” But this guy, his whole mindset is, “I hope she likes me. I hope she chooses me,” and so he’s doing everything to go out of his way to be extra nice, an extra pleaser.
At the end of the day, women don’t care how much you like them. They only care about how they feel about you. And if you act weak, and soft, and approval seeking, and Mr. White Knight, Captain Save-a-Hoe, all of those things, you act like a doormat, and she can walk all over you, and she texts you, you drop what you’re doing instantly, and you show up. You throw a bunch of money at her, or spend a bunch of money on her, doing these grand gesture dates a lot of guys tend to do.
When I dropped her off at her car, I asked what she thought so far.
Can you imagine pulling up in the driveway, “Well, what do you think about me so far? Are you going to choose me? Do I get to kiss you now?” It’s a bad way to go, dude. The number one, most important thing that women find attractive in men is confidence. And so, the guy is sitting there, dropping her off at the end of the first date going, “Oh, what do you think about me so far?” A man should know. He should have the attitude of, “Of course she likes me.” So, when you say, “What do you think of me?” it communicates, “I’m not good enough for you. I don’t think you’re going to like me.” That’s the opposite of confident.
She kind of got weirded out by that. I see now, that was a needy mistake coming out in me.
It’s approval seeking behavior. She’s wearing a man that can lead her, and that’s why she’s so aggressive to get together. She was ready to get it on. That’s why she’s comfortable having you pick her up. But when you say something like that, it just communicates no confidence, you don’t believe in yourself. Again, you’re just pedestalizing this woman and treating her like a celebrity. And so, what happens is she’s going to end up treating him like a fan, which we’ll see when she sends this long diatribe text.
Everything seemed great up to that point, and that evening she sent me the attached text. Here are the last text messages between us. I’m attaching to this email our last text to each other. My question is, do you think some of her marriage problems are coming through, causing her to push away?
Well, you displayed a lot of unattractive behavior, obviously. Which, now that you’ve been through the book, you’re about three quarters of the way through, I’m sure a lot of light bulbs are going off and you’re going, “Ooh, shouldn’t have done that.” I mean, even in the email you’re starting to recognize, “Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have done that.” But hey, you didn’t know any better.
We’ve all been propagandized by the same media and TV our whole lives. And as Confucius said, “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance.” And now, you’re filling in your ignorance and you can correct it, so this doesn’t happen again. But you notice he’s making all of these rationalizations for why she sent this text, which I’ll get to in a second.
Maybe she never received flowers or affection from her spouse?
It doesn’t matter, it’s inappropriate. It’s a first date, and you’re buying her things already. A gift certificate? That’s way over the top, dude. Don’t do that. Wives or girlfriends only get gifts. You don’t just buy random stuff for some woman you haven’t even kissed, and quite frankly, before you even went on a date with her.
I have not contacted her back, and she has not contacted me as well at this point. We had such a good time, and I really felt a great connection with her. I’m wondering, what do you think on the text and what I should do at this point. Just leave things be and give her some space to process? Or do you think she was just telling me in a passive way that she is not interested? I’ve never had anyone pursue me like this, then turn so cold.
HER: “Soooo, you’re a great guy and we have so much in common.”
So, whenever somebody says “so” with lots of O’s, there’s probably a lot of BS coming after it.
“It actually sounds like fun to paint your house.”
I don’t know what that was about. Maybe he invited her to paint his house?
“There’s only one problem, and that is that you look and talk like my friend’s husband. I mean, not just a little familiar, but I almost called her to see if her husband was with her. I know it sounds stupid, I told myself that too. I thought maybe it was just the dim light of Porter’s, but even today in the natural light it’s the same. Ugh, I wish this wasn’t the case and that I could get over it. I really enjoy hanging out, and you laugh at my jokes! You’re such a catch! Dammit! Really sorry, and thanks so much for hanging out with me. I know you’ll find your perfect someone.”
Oh, it’s been awhile since I read any BS. I was like, “Damn, I’ve got to put my boots on for this one.” So, what’s basically happening is she’s just saying, “Yeah, I was attracted, but not really. I’m not really attracted anymore.” Like I said, I would never contact her again for any reason. I mean, he already replied back.
HIM: “Thank you for being honest.”
“I know you have a lot going on in your life, and you made time for us to get to know one another. I appreciate that. Dating is very nerve racking…”
So, he’s given her a pep talk here.
“…at least for me, so thank you for taking the time to get to know me.”
“You are quite the catch yourself – beautiful, smart and funny – and I’m honored to have gotten to meet you.”
It’s like, dude, you’re drooling all over her. Not attractive.
“If for some reason, you ever change your mind down the road, I would be interested in knowing you more. Good luck in your new adventure. Take care!”
I’m just trying to understand what she is going through, as well…
Well, what she’s going through is a loss of attraction for you.
…and maybe what she might be thinking.
Well, her pussy has become drier than the Sahara Desert.
At this point, I have not done anything to contact her, but if she does end up contacting me at some point, how should I go about handling our communication with each other? Is there anything specific I should do?
Well, you’ve already been over to her place, and for her to to say something like that, and the fact that she was that aggressive tells me that she was really hoping to get her freak on with you. That’s what I’m thinking. But when you did the Mr. Nice Guy routine, and you pedestalized her, and constantly drooled all over her, and acted like you were not worthy, eventually she was like, “Yeah, he’s not worthy. He doesn’t have the confidence.”
So, you’ve already texted her. There’s nothing to do at this point. However, if you do hear from her, say she does text you, I’d wait until the next day to respond back. I wouldn’t be in a rush, and I would say, “Hey, it’s great to hear from you. We should get together and make dinner at my place and catch up.” I’d send her your address, or just say, “When are you available?” And I’d just be following that script. You’ve been to her house, you’ve picked her up. She feels safe with you, you feel comfortable with her.
And you should be applying what’s in the book. Read it 10 to 15 times. Read it as many times as you can. I’d say, more than likely, you probably won’t hear from her again, but it’s also possible in a few weeks or a month, because the girl did like you. She was aggressive at first, but pedestalizing her, and being super nice, and constantly acting like you’re not worthy, and seeking her attention and approval and hope and she’ll give you a pat on the head like a good little boy, I mean, you don’t treat women you’re trying to seduce like your mommy. That’s extremely unattractive, and that’s what happened here.
And she doesn’t want to hurt your feelings, because she’s like, “Oh, he’s such a nice guy,” so she wants to let you down easy. And so, she gives you an excuse that sounds logical and sounds like it makes sense. Like, “Oh, gosh darn it, you just look too much like my friend’s husband. I just can’t do it. But you’re so amazing.” Does that mean that she hates her friend’s husband? That’s just an absurd excuse. And it’s an excuse, it’s not the truth. Remember, the longer the excuse, the bigger the lie. And that was a pretty long excuse with all kinds of BS. But it sounds logical, and most guys will go, “Okay, that sounds alright. I guess I look like her friend’s husband, because she doesn’t like him very much.”
Like I said, if she does reach out, invite her over to your place to make dinner together. Don’t take her out, don’t go pick her up. If she wants to see you, she can come to your house to make dinner together. And if she doesn’t want to do that, just say, “It’s been a long week. I’m just hanging my place. If you don’t want to come over, then give me a call in a couple of weeks and maybe I’ll be up for meeting you out then.” And that’s all the effort I would give her, just because of a) the way she’s treated you, b) she gave you that BS text. It wasn’t even close to being the truth, but obviously, we know that it was your behavior that turned her off. She was definitely attracted to you, but she became unattracted because of your unattractive behavior.
But it’s quite possible when you walk away and you never look back, and she goes out on a few other dates with guys that are just really bad, that in a few weeks she might reach out. And then, like I said, I wouldn’t pick her up or meet her out, or do any of that. If she wants to see you, she can come to your house and make dinner together. And if she doesn’t want to do that, I mean, all the objections are handled in “7 Principles To Get An Ex Back.” So I’d be following that script to a T. Because your job in the courtship is just simply to create an opportunity for sex to happen – to hang out, to have fun, to hook up.
This girl was making it easy to get together. She was even asking you to spend time with her, because she was hoping you would seduce her, but you just turned her off with acting too much like a beta male. And that’s the real reason why she dipped. But it’s a 50/50 shot that you hear from her again. And if she does, I’d be following what’s in “7 Principles To Get An Ex Back.” Don’t meet her out for lunch or or give up and submit to her, because then you’ll just get blue balls and end up stuck in friendzone spinning your wheels.
But I can just tell, if this woman spending this much time on you, she’s already having you coming to her house, she feels comfortable with you. But the problem is you’re just too nice. You didn’t act masculine enough. You’ve got to be more masculine than your date. That’s what women want from you. They don’t want you acting like another chick that’s unsure of yourself, doesn’t know what to do, doesn’t know what he wants, that kind of thing.
So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen and book a coaching session with yours truly.
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