The cure for the crazy ex-girlfriend you love, but who makes your life miserable when trying to work out problems, so you can get back together.
In this video coaching newsletter, I discuss an email from a coaching client who is having problems re-attracting his ex-girlfriend. We’ve done two phone sessions together, but he is still not following what I teach and what I have suggested during our phone sessions. As a result, he is getting hot and cold responses and not really getting anywhere with her.
His girlfriend broke up with him based upon the lies of one of his “friends” who was trying to break them up, because his friend wanted to date her instead. He made the mistake of accepting responsibility for the breakup for several months, which resulted in her constantly jerking him around and browbeating him with anger, guilt and shame for the breakup. This is a series of three short emails that show the dynamics of negotiation that are helpful when trying to get your ex back or get out of friend zone. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the bodies of his emails.
1st Email, with my response after:
I wanted to update you on how last night went.
In our last phone session we had, she was actually coming over, because like I talk about in “7 Principles To Get An Ex Back,” you’re willing to hear her out. You’re willing to give her another shot at winning you back. You’re willing to potentially give her another chance. But your skeptical, you’re not really excited, you’re not happy with the way things went down in the past, and so she really better be sorry about what she did and really go out of her way to be willing to make it up to you.
That’s why I say, you want the woman to come to your place. The farthest distance you should travel to see her is the distance it takes to go from wherever you are in you house to the front door to let her in, and that’s it. That means you don’t meet her out for coffee, you don’t go to lunch, you don’t go to her house, you don’t go pick her up and take her out on a date. You do none of that. For three dates in a row, she must come to your place. And if you hang out, you have fun and you hook up all three times in a row, then you can pick her up and take her out. And obviously you’ll see here, this girl didn’t do that, and he just threw everything out the window.
She came over, we drank wine. I got her laughing and touching me, and when I went for the kiss, she said she wasn’t ready, and there were still too many emotions.
Keep in mind, this is a woman that is fucking another guy that she is supposedly not that into. So, she obviously hasn’t ditched this other guy either. Remember, the idea is he’s willing to hear her out and give her another chance to come over and talk and just see where it goes from there. In other words, he’s willing to invest very little, because he’s got new girls in his life. She had been kind of distant and aloof, and as soon as she finds out he’s on a date with a really attractive woman, completely changed her attitude. It changes the position of leverage to his favor.
Keep in mind, you’re not really excited about getting back together. Remember, drama-free zone, right? No fucking drama allowed. And this woman has brought a shit-ton of fucking drama into your life, so the right way you should be looking at it is, “I’m not so crazy about spending time with her. Yeah, I love the girl, but it’s like, she did me dirty. She fucked me over. Why would I want to be in a relationship with a woman like that?” Quite frankly, this is the kind of mindset you should have, but because you’re in love with her and think she’s amazing, you’re drunk with your infatuation. You just don’t see any of that. From a leverage perspective, emotionally, you’re in a weak position.
You don’t take a woman like this out to dinner and spend money on her. In other words, you’re having a chill evening at your house, “come on over and let’s make dinner together.” Therefore, she’s coming to your castle or kingdom, so it’s on your terms. If she doesn’t want to do that, then you simply withdraw the offer. Because the reality is, you reward a woman for treating you well with the greatest gift you can give anyone, which is the gift of your time. If they treat you like shit and like dirt, like this woman did, she gets the gift of missing you. If she comes over, then you hang out and make dinner together, but obviously she didn’t stick around for dinner.
So, she left and I went to dinner without her. She then texted me while I was at dinner that she was going to be up for a few hours and to come over.
You thought you were in and everything was going to be great, but that would be chasing. I would have said, “Well, I’m kind of tired. If you want to come over and hang out, that would be great. Otherwise, maybe some other night. We were supposed to spend the evening, then you left, so I’m going to pass on coming over.”
Same thing. Wouldn’t let me escalate physically, but was laying on me, holding hands, touching me a lot and was giving me fuck me eyes.
Now you’re going to her castle. It’s the equivalent of taking the negotiating table, strapping it to the roof of your car and driving it over to her house. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away forever and mean it. Remember, she’s supposed to be the one groveling to you, and fixing this. And these are not the actions of a guy that has that perception. You did great, then she came over and it’s like all the shit went right out the fucking door, and you went right back to chasing and groveling like you did before.
She then told me out of the blue to go get my dog. Which I thought meant, to get my dog and bring her over, so I could spend the night.
Again, does this sound like a guy who’s going, “I’ll give you a shot and see what you’ve go to say?” This sounds like a guy who’s willing to fucking drop anything to spend any bit of time with this girl. Now keep in mind, she’s fucking another guy. She’s not sleeping with him. They haven’t hooked up in six months now.
I said, okay, I’ll get her and be back. She then clarified that she meant she had to go to sleep, and she wasn’t ready to sleep with me yet, and just meant that my dog had been alone for a long time, and she was worried about her, (she loves my dog).
No, she was just telling you to leave to jerk you around, because you shouldn’t have been over at her house in the first place.
She kept saying stuff like, if we get back together, blah blah.
Again, you look at what people do, not what they say. This is the same thing that’s been going on for six months. They’ve gone times where they didn’t talk for several weeks or a month, and then she reaches out. And this is kind of how it goes. So he basically went right back to what he was doing before, which was getting him nowhere.
And I just said, look, let’s just hang out, enjoy each other’s company and have fun. She again cried a lot. So, I gave her a hug and left—she wasn’t letting me kiss her.
So, she’s not acting normal, she’s acting passive-aggressive, and partly because she’s sleeping with another guy and not you.
I stayed at her place until around 1am.
So I get home, and she texts me that my ‘energy changed,’ and she felt super uncomfortable when I left.
So now she goes right back into browbeating you. “It’s all your fault. How could you do this to me? I’m so hurt.” And again, because you’re all emotional, you’re going right back into accepting it’s all your fault that you broke up and you’re the bad guy. What that tells her is that “I made the right decision by breaking up with him and dating somebody else.” So you’re actually validating her choice to blame you for the breakup and continue dating the other guy. And on top of that, she’s trying to make you feel like shit. Because if she can make you take ownership, then guess what, she’s got no guilt. She didn’t do anything wrong. When in reality, this whole thing is her fault.
I can tell you with certainty that I didn’t do anything, so I just said that she was projecting something onto me that I didn’t feel any kind of way about.
That’s a correct statement and a good response.
She said that even if I didn’t feel that way, she did, and really needed to take things slow, because her emotions are super high, and that I didn’t understand because she’s really emotional and scared of being hurt again.
Why should she be scared of being hurt? She’s the one who ruined the relationship. She’s the one that fucked it up. Again, that’s a way to bait you and try to say it’s all your fault.
What the hell is going on here? Not sure how to proceed other than continuing to see her and continuing to try and escalate, but maybe be more aware of her comfort level.
You’re like, “I’m going to continue to jump through my butt to try to please her and calm her down so she doesn’t get upset.” Dude, you should be upset with her. You should be tired of this bullshit. This should be the kind of thing that you’re just not interested in. Remember, what’s the cup say? No Drama Allowed. There’s nothing better than having a drama-free life.
It does feel like things are progressing but each night ends with a massive shit test instead of sex.
Well, it ends with you running after her and doing things on her terms, not doing the things I suggested, and going back to trying what you tried for six months, which got you nowhere.
Stop going to her. She needs to come to you. If she wants to see you, she should come to you. You’re giving control back to her by going to her and then being told what to do, and then she jerks you around like a yo-yo. She must earn another chance with you. Not the other way around. If she wants to see you, she can come over, otherwise you’re not going to her. She must fix this. She blew it up. It’s not your job to go to her, so she can repair things.
She also is not behaving like a normal person. Instead of being natural, she holds back and is being fake and manipulative and then blames you for not sleeping with you or feeling comfortable.
I would have told her to come over instead of going to her. You fucked up by going to her.
If she wants to see you, she can come over. If she wants to talk, she can come over. That’s it. If she asks, “why are you being this way?” remind her that she is the one who fucked things up, and therefore she must fix it and prove to you that she’s committed to treating you right and making things right. No half measures. If she is unsure, tell her to get in touch when she figures it out.
So in other words, from a negotiating perspective, there’s an iron wall. It’s like you only get through the gates if you have the correct password and do everything right. You’ve got to hold her feet to the fire. She doesn’t want to take blame or ownership of it.
More and more shit tests. She texts me some nice stuff on Saturday to which I reply. I don’t initiate anything. Then, after not texting her at all Sunday, she’s texts me and says she’s assuming my feelings have changed since I didn’t reach out to her for one whole day and to have a nice life basically.
I would have said, “Look, you’re still dating and sleeping with another guy, so my feelings haven’t changed. You need to resolve that issue with that guy, you need to fix things with your family, and you need to tell them the truth of what happened.” You have to continually give a united front. Just because she comes in from a different angle, you don’t cave and go back to what wasn’t working.
So, it blew it over, she texts me all day the day after, she initiated all the contact, and I was slow to respond. I didn’t contact her Sunday, and she sends me a message saying, “since you’re not reaching out to me and following through, I am assuming your feeling have changed — I hope you have an nice life.”
I responded, “please don’t assume my feelings, if I felt differently about seeing you, I wouldn’t be spending time with you.”
I wouldn’t have been saying “please.” It just shows you the mindset dude. It’s like you’re groveling and you’re begging for any scrap of attention from her.
I honestly have no idea how to handle all these shit tests man.
Dude, the shit tests really shouldn’t be your issue. That’s part of the problem. You’re going, “Corey, how can I jump through my butt to make her like me again?” That’s the wrong mindset. She’s supposed to be jumping through her butt. She’s got to fix all of this, and you’re letting her wiggle out of it.
I tried to book another phone session, but cannot get in for two weeks and need some advice before then if you have the time.
So, things were going fairly well until recently with my ex. I saw her several times last week. Friday, we had fun, and she was texting me all day Saturday, and I responded and kept it light and short. I let her initiate all the contact. On Sunday, I didn’t reach out to her, and then she texts me and says, “I guess because you didn’t contact me today, your feelings have changed, and you’re not interested anymore.” I texted her back to which she didn’t reply.
I ran into her on Monday walking our dogs, and we ended up talking for a couple hours.
I would have invited her over and said, “Why don’t we go back to my place? Maybe we can chat some more and pop a bottle of wine.” And if she said no, then I would be like, “Alright. I’ve got to run, I’m kind of busy. I’ve got things I need to do. Call me if you want to come over later.”
She basically said she thought I was playing games.
Remember, she’s the one refusing to kiss you, the one inviting you over and then telling you to leave.
I told her I wasn’t, and enjoyed spending time with her again. She said she wanted to take it slow sexually/emotionally, but wanted to stay in contact more.
In other words, “I want to keep you as a backup until I decide what I’m going to do with this other guy.” Again, more giving your power away to her.
She asked me to go to dinner with her on Tuesday, and I agreed.
Dude, no fucking dinners. You don’t go to dinner with this girl. You don’t spend money on her by taking her to dinner. You’re basically validating her being an absolute jackass to you. If she wants to see you, she can come to your place.
Everything again going well on Tuesday, but at the end of the night I made a big mistake. I said, “I’ve never been with a girl, that wouldn’t kiss me. This is uncharted territory for me.” I meant it as a joke, but she flipped out and said, “you want me to just do what YOU want me to do and be submissive to you, and I’m not like that.”
Yes, that’s what a woman is supposed to do, to submit to her man and trust his lead.
That’s obviously not what I meant. She ended up sending me a message stating:
“I honestly I think we are just in two very different places emotionally and expectations of this relationship.”
Well, there’s not a relationship. She actually fucking another guy. But again, she’s a master manipulator, just dangling the little carrot because, like a cat, you’re going to fucking swing at it.
“No matter how many times I tell you my position, you always say just get over it, or it’s not the same thing, etc. And each time I show up or make an effort, you always say you want more and are pushy, but when I call you out, you take a step back but then do it again.”
That’s part of the problem with chasing her and running after her, instead of making her come over, because if she’s coming to you, she’s chasing you. When you drive to her, when you take her to a restaurant, you are chasing her. You are doing things on her terms. If she says, “Hey let’s go out to dinner on Tuesday,” then you say “Nah, I just want to hang, maybe have some wine and continue chatting. I don’t want to go to dinner. Besides, you’re dating and sleeping with some other guy. Let him take you to dinner.”
“That comment last night really turned me off. You might have meant something different, but having those words come out if your mouth is hard to think you meant something else when you say, “I’ve never had a girl treat me like this in my life and not do what I want her to.””
Again, she’s had six months of being able to intimidate you with threats of the end of the relationship.
“I’m never going to be that way. Bottom line, you want me to be who I was with you, and I feel pressured each time we have hung out, and like you don’t really understand why I feel the way I do, and it’s hard for me to just go back or act like you are.”
Again, this is all her fuck-up. If she’s feeling upset, she did it to herself. That’s the kind of thing you’ve got to keep bringing her back to. Now you did do right a few weeks ago when she came over, and you could tell she was taken aback by it and changed her fucking attitude after her friend saw you on a date with another girl. But the problem is, you went right back to behaving exactly the same way you were before. That’s why you’re stuck in limbo.
“I appreciate your time, and effort the few times we hung out, but you and I are in two very different places, and I see it continuing this way.”
That’s a true statement. She’s basically saying, “You’re going to continue to act like a beta male, and I’m going to walk all over you, and you’re not going to stand up to me, you’re not going to call me out on my bullshit,” and that’s what a woman wants. She deep down knows that she fucked up and was out of line. But you’re letting her off the hook by your Mr. Nice Guy, knight in shining armor routine.
“I care about you and want you to be happy. If I run into you, I won’t be mean or dismissive. I just can’t see this going well based on where we are and where my family and friends are.”
Which was her fault.
I told her that I appreciated her articulating what she wanted, and if she wanted to see me again to let me know.
I would have responded a little differently to that. I would have just said, “Your family and friends are the way they are because you violated my trust, and you shared things based on a lie from this parasite, this fucking snake in the grass that was supposedly a friend of mine, who was basically trying to get with you. And obviously, the guy’s been successful at breaking us up. So if you’re not going to fix things with your family and your friends and tell them it was all your fault, then it doesn’t really matter anyway, because this is not resolvable.”
Women have to know that if they push you too far, you will walk and never look back. And no matter what this girl does, you just keep putting up with it, and you don’t call her out. You don’t put her in her place. Your response is basically saying, “Okay yeah, the breakup was all my fault. Yeah, your family and friends hating me is all my fault too,” even though you have told her it was her fault. Women are going to keep coming at you and keep testing you with the same bullshit if you let them get away with it. And unfortunately, you’ve been letting her get away with it, and you’re still letting her get away with it.
I don’t know what’s going on here or how to proceed. She was really warming up to me and giving me all the signs that her attraction level was growing, and I feel like I absolutely blew it.
Well, that’s mostly true, because you didn’t really do what we talked about.
Fact is, I am totally crazy about her, but have been trying to hide it as best I can.
Well, you driving to pick her up and taking her to dinner and all these other things, you’re doing everything on her terms. You’re letting her set the pace. You’re still letting her be the man in the relationship, and that’s basically why she’s a bridezilla.
Clearly, I haven’t been doing as good of a job as I thought.
True statement. What I would do at this point is nothing. You have to have the balls to stand up to this woman. And the next time she gets in touch to browbeat you, or suggest getting together or “hey, what are you doing,” take your time, invite her over to make dinner together, and you have to give her a united front. You can’t get together with her on one day, and tell her it’s all your fault and “I expect you to fix it with your friends and family, and I’ll go and help you do that, when you confront everybody and support you, but you have to fix that.” You can’t tell her that, and then the next week throw all that crap out the window and allow her to start browbeating you.
She’s coming at you from ten different directions. It’s like you don’t see it coming. You’re used to her metaphorically smacking you in the face, and you’re smart enough to back up, but then she runs around behind you and she whacks you in the back of the head. She just keeps coming at you, and unfortunately, you’re flailing bro. And you’re not passing her tests. You’re basically in the same place you’ve been for the last six months.
I’d love to do another phone session with you, but if you just keep doing what you’ve been doing wrong, I appreciate the business, but it’s just not going to work. When you have done the things we talked about, things have gotten better, but as soon as it looks like you’re getting somewhere, then you go right back to chasing her and letting her dictate the pace. And that’s just not what I suggest.
“In any negotiation, the person who has the most to lose has the least amount of leverage. When parties to a negotiation are too far apart on terms for a win/win deal to be possible, the best solution is to table the negotiation for a later date in the future when all parties are more flexible and open to do a deal. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away forever and mean it. This means that the current terms of any potential deal are so undesirable, that not only is no deal possible, but it’s simply not worth the time, energy or effort to pursue any further without significant concessions from the other parties.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
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