Was I Friend Zoned Or Not?

How to know if you’re friend-zoned or not & what to do next if you are.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who had three dates with a girl who also runs in some of the same social circles as him. He’s also seen her with another guy at a recent event. She said they should be friends first and he declined saying romantic only. She also started talking about an older guy she was considering a relationship with.

He’s unsure if he’s friend-zoned or not. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

This particular email is from a viewer who had three dates with a girl. She also happens to run in some of the same social circles as him. So they kind of see each other. They have these, it sounds like some kind of healing retreat that they go on. So they see each other there. Recently he saw her there with another guy at one of these events.

So on the third date, she basically tried to friend-zone him and said, “Oh, I want to be friends first.” Usually that’s the kiss of death. If you’re dating a girl and she says, “Well, I want to be friends first,” usually that means you can’t get out of friend-zone if you agree to that. So he politely declined. Then she started talking about some older guy that she was also kind of seeing and was considering a relationship with. So he’s kind of unsure where he stands right now, whether he’s friend-zoned or not.

Viewer Email:

Hi Coach,

I read the book 5-7 times.

I was going on dates with a girl. I kissed her at the end of the first date and she worked early in the morning so I let her go home. I kiss her end of the second date, but she was in her period. So no Olympics.

No red wings either, apparently.

Then the third date I ended up getting sick and she got a little under the weather too (no kiss since I wasn’t feeling well).

Well, if you’re sick or you know you’re getting sick and you got a date, it’s best to postpone the date until you feel better, because obviously in this case, especially when he mentioned she’s a little flaky, it’s actually kind of good, because then she gets a little frustrated that she couldn’t see you. At the end of the day, if you’re sick, you’re sick, and I wouldn’t recommend going on a date when you got snot running down your face. It’s not a lot of fun trying to be charming, and it’s like you’re trying to get a little kissy-poo. It’s kind of hard for a girl to get excited about that when you got snot running down your face.

So you got to kind of think of the logistics of sex and anything physical and not trying to get the other person sick, you know? Say you got a cold, then she gets your cold. Then that delays you being able to see each other a couple of weeks, because then she’s trying to get over it. So it’s best in that case to postpone it, especially when you’re both not feeling good and it makes her wait a little bit longer. Typically she’ll like you better that way because the idea is you’re trying to go slower than she is. So when a guy’s keeping a date, when he’s getting sick, it’s usually because he’s worried he’s not going to get another date or that he may lose her. At the end of the day, you go out on a date when you’re not feeling 100%, again, a girl’s not going to kiss you when you got snot all over your face.

Then for a month we didn’t get together because she canceled dates and trying to change plans.

So when a woman’s doing that, her interest is low. Again, if her interest wasn’t super high, then you plan a date where you’re sick, you’re sniffling, snorting your snot the whole time, and a runny nose, it’s just not a good look. So clearly, her interest dropped after the last date, and you’re trying to create the conditions where it actually goes up because then she wants to see you more.

I applied takeaway and canceled it because she said her evening wasn’t free the whole night and she needed me time…

So if a girl is basically saying she’d rather take some me time than hang out with you, it means her interest is low in hanging out with you. You want to be hanging out with somebody who’s excited to see you. So when she says something like that, then you withdraw the offer and he’s like, “Well, let’s get together in a couple weeks then, after you had some me time.”

You got to be willing to withdraw and tell her to get in touch with you when you notice her interest is low because then you give her the chance to follow through on what she says, or to flake out and disappear forever. You make it so she has to choose you as well. She also makes a mutual effort, and girls that like you will make a mutual effort. Those that don’t, they’ll let you fade away. On top of that, when she said, “She needed me time, but said she really did want to see me,” and girls would do that so you don’t just give up completely on them.

…But said she really did want to see me. So we ended up hanging out yesterday.

In the time that we didn’t have any dates I would run into her during two sweat lodge ceremonies I would play it cool and again at the hot springs.

So she has some kind of sweat lodge type things. They do a lot of that kind of stuff like in Arizona. So I’m assuming that’s maybe where he’s at.

At the springs she was with a guy from out of town but she seemed to like me more than him when we were in the spring for the afternoon. And we were at the same fertility festival and she was by my side the whole time. And I kissed her at the end of that. Bird peck when she was leaving. She seemed shocked I did.

Meaning he kissed her. That tells you that you might have been kissing her when she wasn’t really open to it. Again, that’s why the kiss test from the book is helpful. Make sure you’re making a physical move when she’s open to it and then it escalates from there, because if you’re doing it once, she’s not open to it or she’s not ready yet, if you’re rushing a little bit, then you can actually turn her off and delay the seduction.

On yesterday’s date she said we should start out as friends after asking what my intentions were (I said romantic) and I said I wasn’t interested in friendship to which she said, “That’s good.” I didn’t say I wanted to keep going on dates and get clarity on her position, which is part of my confusion.

Well, here’s the interesting thing about that. If you’re confused about a woman’s interest in you, it usually means it’s low because if her interest is high, you won’t be confused.

So this is part of the problem. When a guy looks at only how much he likes a girl and is not really trying to pay attention to whether she likes him or not, he just assumes, “Oh, she’s on a date with me. She must like me.” Sometimes girls will go out on a date because they got nothing better to do, and sometimes they want to just see what happens. Therefore, they’re open to liking you more, but the key is to display attractive behavior on those dates so she does like you more instead of talking her out of liking you, which is kind of what it looks like is going on here.

She seems to become less interested with time the more he’s spending with her. That’s where reading the book 10 to 15 times, he can kind of fill in his knowledge gap and figure out what things he’s still doing when he’s with her that is unattractive.

Was I friend-zoned or not? She then told me about and asked my advice on someone she was considering as a partner but he’s (52) about 25 years older than her (26) and she said deep down because of that, she feels like it won’t work out with him because of those circumstances.

So it’s kind of like her way of saying, “Hey, here’s your competition.” An older guy that she’s not too sure about. So this is kind of the way women are honest. They tell you what’s going on with your real competition is, which in this case, you’re like, “It’s really not competition.” So at the end of the day, getting back to the letter…

She said he’s letting her progress their situation completely at her pace.

Uh, that’s interesting.

I know the guy through a sweat lodge we all go to. I like him.

Well, maybe he understands the book. So in that case, if he’s letting her come to him at her pace, she might end up choosing the other guy. So again, when you’re trying to, because the other thing that we got to pay attention to, is that she was canceling dates. The late, great Doc Love said, “One chance per girl per lifetime.” Meaning if she cancels the date on you and doesn’t bring up rescheduling, you don’t go out with her again. It just shows she doesn’t really respect you and it’s better to cut her loose because the disrespect continues.

Again, it looks like he made several dates and she canceled several dates and he kept trying to pursue even though she was canceling dates. So that’s why you use the takeaway. If she doesn’t seem like she’s excited to go out with you, or she can’t really tell you when she’s available, then just say, “Well, why don’t you figure your schedule out and get back to me?” So you give her the chance to follow through on that, or to just flake out and never contact you again. Again, a girl that likes you makes it easy. You won’t be confused about her interest. A girl that does like you or doesn’t like you, then you’re going to be confused about her interest. You’re going to be unsure. That’s where he’s at.

So it’s obvious that it’s low, but because he really likes her, it’s kind of hard for him to see that, because that would mean admitting that her interest is low. Obviously there’s probably some things he did to contribute to her interest being low. That’s why I direct him back to the book. If you’re new here, you can read it for free at UnderstandingRelationships.com. Just subscribe to the email newsletter, put your first name, your email address, create a password, and it will open up right in your web browser.

At end of the night when we were back at her place, she originally said she wanted to bathe and go to sleep but I had a pineapple in her fridge we ended up cutting it up and hanging out. she said that she cannot entertain romances because of her respect for her situation she was in until she can put it away and feel good about it.

So she’s basically saying, “Hey, I want to see what happens with this older guy.”

I then said does that apply to kissing? and she said yes. So I told her to take all the time she needed to figure that out and reach out to me when she wanted to get together. Then she gave me many small gifts and I’d say we had a good time. I’m trying to decide if I strictly use 7 Principles To Get An Ex Back protocol or if that doesn’t apply to this situation.

So I don’t know what he’s saying, “She gave me many small gifts.” Is that kisses? Is that something physical? Or were they actual gifts? I don’t really know. So I don’t know if he’s trying to be a little cheeky, like they hooked up. Doesn’t sound like it, but he says, “I’d say we had a good time.” Maybe she actually did give some him some trinkets, some chocolates or something, I don’t know. It’s not really clear.

Was I dumped or does she just need time and I can pick up where I left off when I hear from her?

Thanks and blessings,

Bob

Well, you can pick up where you left off when you hear from her, or I should say that’s what you should assume. I mean, she basically said, “Hey, I want to see where things go with this other guy.” So that’s when you just back off and you completely disengage. You assume that she’s chosen him, and then you’re going to move on with your life and start meeting and dating other women. If she does reach out, assume she misses you and wants to see you. Then in that case, then I would just invite her over to make dinner at your place. I wouldn’t go on any actual dates or meet her out, for coffee, lunch, or anything. It’s got to be dinner at your place, or you’re going to give her the classic excuse from 7 Principles To Get An Ex Back, which is, “Hey, it’s been a long week. I’m just in the mood to hang at my place. If you don’t want to come over, then give me a call in a couple weeks and maybe I’ll be up for meeting you out then.”

So because she blew him off, and especially since she canceled dates, your willingness to do things under what she wants is low. Therefore, you want her to submit to you. You want her to treat you like the way you want to be treated, and you want her to agree to come over and make dinner, because when a woman knows that if she’s making plans to come to your house in the evening, make dinner together, that sex is on the table. If a girl’s trying to keep you in friend-zone or keep you as a backup plan while she figures out what’s going on with the primary guy, then that’s why she’ll try to get you to meet her out or go to lunch. So this just forces her to shit or get off the pot and not waste your time because it sucks being in limbo. Then you’re like, “What is that? Where are we at now? Does that mean we’re moving forward? Am I going to hear from her in a week?” Then a week goes by and you still don’t hear from her, it’s like, “OK well, is she going to reach out after two weeks?” Maybe two weeks go by, three weeks go by, four weeks go by and you start wondering, “Well shit, is that the end of it?” As soon as you start kind of getting over it a little bit, maybe week five, week six, boom! “Hey, you! What are you doing?” She reaches back out and it’s just kind of the way it goes with these.

So as you’re learning what’s in the book, that’s why it’s helpful to have other women that you’re dating because you’re going to come across women that don’t have a clean slate. In other words, there’s still a guy they’re talking to that they’re not sure of or they’re still talking to an ex. So if you have other girls that you’re hanging out with that their situation is they’re open, in other words, they’re single and ready to mingle and there’s no exes or anything in the background, things can progress with them, while these are on the back burner, and then when they get back in touch, they’re much more flexible and open to do what you want to do.

So in this case, I wouldn’t do anything. Again, she’s telling them that she wants to see where things go with this other dude. So she reaches out a few weeks from now, assuming she wants to see you, invite her over to make dinner and don’t do anything other than dinner at your place. That’s the only date you’re willing to do. So she’ll have to come over for three dates in a row, and as long as you hang out, have fun, and hook up all three times, then after that, you can meet her out, pick her up, and go on regular dates, but you got to let her do all the reaching out again, especially when there’s another guy in the picture, because she’ll back off from him and back off from you. Almost all the time the other guy is not going to know any better, and then he’s going to pursue her and you’re not doing anything, and he’ll actually chase her into your arms and she’ll become more interested in you because she’ll wonder why you’re not really reaching out or whatever.

So as she backs off from the other guy, he flails around, displays weakness, turns her off, dries her up, and it turns her on towards you even though you’re not really doing anything, because that’s what the masculine high value guy is going to do. The guy’s got other choices and other options. He’s not going to twist a girl’s arm. He’s not going to try to convince her to choose him. If she tells him she’s hanging out with another guy and she’s unsure, it’s like, “I don’t want a girl that’s unsure. I want somebody that’s like, ‘Hell yeah, I’d love to see you!'” So when a girl is telling you something like that, it’s like, “Hey, well good luck with that. Hit me up if it doesn’t work out,” and then you’re on to the next. You move on totally unattached to it because that’s the best way to be because maybe she rides off into the sunset, you never hear from her again, and they live happily ever after, or maybe it doesn’t work out and then you’re the first guy that she thinks of.

So it’s a simple situation. This is the kind of thing that happens to a lot of dudes. Every guy’s started dating a girl, it starts going well, and she’s all hot and heavy, and all of a sudden, after a few weeks, she backs off. Then you find out the ex is back in the picture. She’s not completely over him. Especially if she was the one that got dumped. So there’s always that.

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