Worst Date Ever

Things you can learn from a guy who says he had the worst date ever.

In this video coaching newsletter I discuss an email from a viewer who invited a girl from salsa class for drinks and a salsa dance party. However, he didn’t make a definite date and left things up in the air. When he sent her the details of where to meet she waited 36 hours to reply and then said she couldn’t meet for drinks, but would see him at the salsa class.

He shares how it was the worst date he’s ever had and asks where he went wrong. My comments are in bold italics like this below in the body of his email.

So this particular guy has been following me for a while. He does a lot of salsa dancing and classes, and I guess he’s kind of involved in the salsa circuit, if you will. So he’s in the UK, and he had this girl that he danced with about four different times and he met through his salsa club, I guess you call it, because they go to different salsa events. So he hit her up on Instagram, exchanged numbers, invited her out for a date, but he didn’t really finalize the details. He kind of left things up in the air. Then when he reached out to finalize, like when and where to meet for their date because they originally were supposed to meet for drinks and then go do the salsa class together, he mentioned to her that he also got a hotel where the salsa class was, and probably the way he phrased it and made it sound like he was expecting her to come back to his hotel with him and bump uglies.

So after he sends the logistical email telling her when and where to meet, she waits 36 hours to reply, which is not good. When a woman waits 24 hours to reply, that’s not good, but 36 hours is basically the big hairy middle finger. So she basically responds back, saying she’s been real busy this week, doesn’t have time for drinks, and she’ll see him at the salsa event. So he goes to this event and she is just totally cold, ignores him, and is rude. He ends up dancing with other girls, and then she just kind of leaves and doesn’t even really say goodbye to him. He’s like, “We were supposed to have a date. Like, what the hell?”

So this is what happens when you don’t really adhere to the principles that are in the book, because they’re outlined to prevent flakes and girls that waste your time because it looks like she agreed to the date, but she probably wasn’t really romantically interested in him just by judging by her response and how she behaved. Let’s go through the email because it is a good email, especially when it comes to logistics, because I guess it’s about two hours from where he lives, where this particular salsa event was going on. I guess they have them kind of all over the place. By the time it got done, it would have been like 1:00 in the morning and he didn’t want to drive for two hours, especially if he’d been drinking before, but it looks like he kind of put his foot in his mouth, but it also looks like she just had low interest.

Viewer Email:

Hi Corey,

Just writing to you to get your perspective on a date I went on recently which turned out to be one of the worst, most cringe worthy dates I’ve ever been with someone who I thought I vibed with quite well. I want to learn what I might have done wrong or get your thoughts on whether this women is just rude, etc.

Well, she definitely acted rude. He you invited her to this event, and then she acts like she doesn’t know you when you see her there.

Before I start, my name’s Bob from the UK and I’ve read your book multiple times and currently reading it again. Anyway onto my email.

I dance salsa and over the past six months. I’ve got to know a woman through the salsa parties we go too and we’ve shared some great dances and conversations. I’ve seen her about four times at these parties now and whenever we’ve danced, there was good chemistry and good conversation. At the most recent party I saw her at a few weeks ago, she saw me, gave me a hug and asked me to dance, remembered my name and things about me which I felt showed a degree of interest and attraction. However, I haven’t asked for her number because I’ve seen her come to the party with a guy and they seemed fairly close, so I assumed he was someone she was dating or was her boyfriend, so I kind of left it. 

However, recently she was a recommended friend on Instagram so I followed her. She followed me back and I sent her a message saying it was nice seeing her at the recent party. She messaged me back and we shared a few messages culminating in me giving her my number and suggesting that we grab a drink and go to a salsa party together which she accepted. She sent me her number and I called her to arranged a date. We arranged to go to a salsa party together and grab drinks before the party which she seemed excited by. However here’s where maybe things started to go sideways.

Well, as the book says, you’re going to make a definite date. You don’t agree to a date and then say, “Hey, we’ll tie down plans and details on the day of,” because when you do that, especially if her interest isn’t super high, there’s a good chance she’s going to ditch you. So a definite date means you have a definite day, definite time, definite place to meet up and it’s agreed to, addresses are exchanged if you’re going to go pick her up, that kind of thing, because the more you leave shit up in the air, it’s sloppy. It’s not direct, it’s not decisive, and you’re usually going to end up in a situation like this guy did.

Making a definite date, definite time, definite place to meet shows that you’re clear in your intent and you know what you want. Therefore, if she’s just thinking it’s like a friendly, “Hey, let’s hang out as buddies,” then when you try to make a date, then she’s going to want to wiggle out of it, but if you just leave things up in the air and aren’t real clear, you’ll commit to what you think is a date and kind of looks like, in her mind, it was something else.

Whilst on the phone, I said that I was going to stay in a hotel for the night as it was an hours drive home which I didn’t fancy doing at 1 a.m. in the morning and I suggested that we meet for drinks before the party in a pub that was attached to my hotel which she agreed to.

So I would have given her the address and I would have just said, “Hey, I got a room. I’m going to stay in town, because after having a few drinks and the salsa party, I won’t be driving after a few cocktails, especially at 1:00 in the morning, because I’m going to be tired. There’s a great pub that’s right downstairs. We should meet there, have a few drinks, and then we can walk over to the salsa party when it starts.” That’s what should have happened, but it didn’t.

The party was in 10 days time, so I said that I’d send her the details of where I was staying and to finalize times to meet in the pub nearer the time which she was cool with.

So the thing that I would want to know is like, if you’re going to go on a date, one of the things that the book says is you don’t do group dates. So taking a girl to a salsa class where you know other people for a first date is not what the book teaches. It’s not what I would recommend. So that’s your first blunder right there, because when you do that, she can think, “Oh, he just wants to hang out and salsa dance because we’ve salsa danced before.” You thought it was a date. Doesn’t seem like she did. Again, that’s where you’re kind of being vague.

So if you really wanted to go on a date with her, you should have invited her to meet up someplace for some drinks. If that goes well, you go to dinner. If that goes well, then you can go someplace afterwards to play pool, shoot darts, bowling, miniature golf. We have Topgolf here in the United States. I don’t know if they have it over in Europe or not, but something physical. In other words, like a Dave & Buster’s playing video games. The third place you go should be a place that will facilitate physical interaction. For example, if you’re playing pool and there’s probably a good chance that she’s not very good at it, well you got to show her how to hold the pool cue. So you’re going to be breaking the touch barrier, showing her how to hold the pool cue, so it will appear that you’re just showing her how to do these things, and it makes it easy for both of you to break the touch barrier and to escalate from there. You do the kiss test. If it looks, based upon the kiss test, that she’s open to kissing and you start making out, then that’s when you can invite her to go back to your place to pop a bottle of wine or whatever, but I would never do something like this because he’s planning a date and he’s getting a hotel because probably in the back of his mind he’s thinking, “Hey, if it goes well, I want to smash in my hotel room.” Then he’s doing a group date, which you’re going to know people there.

So she’s not going to be really super comfortable going into an environment where you know other people and it’s a first date. You want to take her someplace where she’s going to feel comfortable to relax. If you take her to your mutual group, she’s not going, “Hey, are you guys dating? What’s going on there?” Plus, you said yourself that you thought she was dating a guy, and that’s why you never asked for her number. So I don’t understand why you would think taking her on a group salsa date was a good idea, when that’s one of the things right in the book that says this is why you don’t do it.

So even though you say you read the book a few times, you pretty much did the opposite of what the book suggests, and you crashed and burned on the runway. Again, I would have never done that because that’s not a definite date. That’s a “maybe” date. You’re leaving shit up in the air, and the more you leave things as vague and up in the air, the more likely you’re going to have an outcome like this guy had.

I got off the phone and I didn’t message her again until three days before the party, where I sent her the address of the hotel to meet me…

So again, if you’re going to ask her on a date, you should have had all the logistics arranged at that time, but you didn’t follow the book. You did it your own way. You literally did the opposite of what the book suggests. Again, the book is laid out so these things don’t happen, but you live and learn. You want to reinvent the wheel, you’re going to learn the hard way. I did all the easy work for you guys. It’s just make it easier on yourself. Follow what’s in the book. It’s tried, tested, and true over many, many decades, tens of thousands of phone sessions and emails and countless clients that I’ve worked with over the years that are all over the world in every cultural, religious, and spiritual background, but if you want to reinvent the wheel, don’t be surprised when it blows up in your face.

…At and a specific time to meet me. I sent this message on Thursday morning before the party, which was on Saturday night, but I didn’t get a response from her until 36 hours later on Friday afternoon, which I saw as a red flag and her interest had dropped.

I would say it probably wasn’t that high to begin with. So here’s a very good chance that she just thought you were wanting to hang out and dance with her at a salsa thing. It wasn’t really a date. On top of that, you’re just going to have a couple drinks beforehand, which seems innocuous and friendly. This is what happens when you’re vague and you’re not really clear. Again, you’re inviting her on a group date, so she just thinks you’re going to salsa class together.

In the message, she said that she’d had a busy week and wouldn’t meet me for drinks but would, “Maybe still see me at the party on Saturday.”

When I see something like that, I would have just texted back, “Hey, no problem. We can just do it another time when your schedule’s more open. Have a great weekend.” That’s what I would have done. I would have withdrawn the offer because when she says, “Maybe. Maybe I’ll see you at the party,” you don’t have a definite date, she clearly was leaving an out and she’s clearly not meeting you for drinks because she doesn’t want you to get the wrong idea. That’s the way it looks to me.

My takeaway from the message was that for whatever reason, her interest had dropped and she wasn’t so keen on meeting up. My initial thought was that maybe she thought it was a bit too full-on or maybe she was wary that I had booked a hotel and she felt unsafe and hence why she dipped out on drinks.

Again, you were vague. The way it looks to me is that she just assumed you were going to go to salsa class together. Then mentioning the hotel, it’s just the whole thing was a train wreck. The way you tried to set it up, you did the opposite of what the book suggested because again, this has been tried, tested, and true for decades. Thousands and thousands of dudes have helped refine this, and you decided to do it your way and completely ignore the book, so you suffer the agony of defeat, but hey, we’ve all been there. This is how you learn. You experience pain and you go, “Well, that really sucks. I don’t want to experience that again.”

But I replied to her saying, “No worries about meeting for drinks. I’ll meet you at the party on Saturday night.” No specific time was arranged to meet at the party, we would just meet up there.

Again, just more being vague.

She didn’t reply back to this message and I honestly thought there was a chance I was going to get stood up which in hindsight, I think would of been better than what happened on the night.

Anyways, Saturday night rolls around and I sent her a message saying that I’d be at the party just after 8:30 p.m., which she replied saying she’d meet me there at 9 p.m. 9 p.m. rolls by and we meet at the party, we give each other a hug and we sit down and have a chat for five minutes. I asked if she wanted a drink, but she declined saying that she was good, which I thought was maybe a sign of a lack of interest.

It might be either she doesn’t drink or she’s thinking, “Oh, he wants me to drink so he can take me back to his hotel.” I mean, in reality, if you had a hotel, there was really no reason to tell her that. You could just say things got late and you’re making out with each other, you can say, “Well, would you care to come back to my hotel room for a cocktail? I got a hotel because I didn’t really want to drive back late at night after the event,” and she says, “No, I got to go,” he’s just like, “OK, no problem. Have a great night.”

Again, this should have never happened. I wouldn’t have been doing this for a first date. It’s just a bad way to go because you’re basically doing, like I said earlier, a group date. This is why you don’t do those things, because she’s not going to act natural. Who knows? Maybe there’s another guy in the salsa class that she’s dated or been out on a few dates with, so she doesn’t want to give anybody the impression that you guys are dating. This is why you don’t do these things, but you read the book and you did the opposite anyway,

But this is where things start to really go down hill…

She puts her heels on and rather than asking me to dance, she runs onto the dance floor and starts dancing with other guys and pretty much ignoring me. I thought to myself, “What the hell?” And I have to admit I definitely felt the vibe was off and she was effectively trying to avoid me, which I thought was really fucking rude.

It’s like, that’s on you because you didn’t follow the book. Again, these things are put in there because they work, and when you do the opposite, well you’re going to understand why doing the opposite doesn’t work.

However, I didn’t expect to be welded to her side the whole night as the etiquette is you dance with lots of people and have a good time. However, we barely spoke the whole time she was there and whilst we shared two dances together and had a few conversations whilst dancing, I definitely felt she was trying to avoid me and the vibe was just completely off. 

Yeah, that just looks like it wasn’t really a date in her mind. She thought initially you’re just going to hang out and go to salsa class together. Then when she heard about the hotel, she figured out, “Oh, this guy thinks it’s a date. Well, let me just be a little squirrely and avoid him and not agree to go go have drinks with him,” even though that’s what she agreed to do, and then even there, she says, “I’m good. I don’t want to drink.”

So it looks like she was thinking, “This guy’s going to get a couple drinks in me, and he thinks he’s going to sleep with me tonight.” Either way, her interest is low. Again, when she waits 36 hours, I would have just said, “Hey, sorry. I didn’t hear back. I made other plans. We can just do it some other time. Have a great weekend.” Then you never call and you never text her again for any reason unless she reaches out to you first. The only way I would have asked her out again is if she brought up getting together and doing something, but the pooch definitely got screwed on this one.

So throughout the night, I was basically dancing with other women and whilst I wasn’t ignoring her, I just left her to it as I thought I’m not going to chase her round seeking her attention when she’s basically ignoring me.

11 p.m. rocks round and I sat down at our table and I see her walking towards me expecting her to sit down and chat to me but nope, she sits down, changes shoes, throws her coat on and promptly leaves with no hug or goodbye and just a small, awkward wave as she darted out of the door. I definitely sensed that she was either pissed off by something or just wanted to get out of there.

Well, she definitely wanted to avoid you.

All I could think was, “What the actual fuck just happened?”

You didn’t follow the book. That’s what happened. The book is designed to help avoid these situations, but you wanted to reinvent the wheel and learn the hard way. So congratulations on the hard life lesson. I know it stings, but hopefully next time around you won’t do stupid things like this.

I asked a girl on a date, she was cold, rude and barely engaged with me and then just fucked off with barely a goodbye. And this is especially odd given that we knew each other through salsa and shared great dances and conversations and chemistry at previous parties. 

Again, you don’t do group dates until she’s in love with you and she’s your girlfriend. So if you’re gonna date somebody from salsa class, you’re going to do it outside of salsa class, because you got to think about that. She doesn’t want to have to answer questions like, “Oh, were you and Bob on a date? Are you guys dating? Are you seeing each other?” It’s like, I don’t know what you were thinking, dude.

I’m not going to lie, I sat there and I was in shock and I felt like a complete tool as I thought, “What the hell had I done to turn her off so much for her to pretty much ignore me during the whole night and barely engage with me?” I was actually glad when she left as it was so fucking awkward. My only reasoning to why this happened was that her level of attraction to start with was either low…

That’s what it looks like.

…Or she just felt creeped out that I had booked a hotel and was turned off thinking that I was going to try and get her into bed and hence only turned up at the party to be polite when she didn’t want to really be there. That’s the vibe I picked up on.

Probably accurate, but again, you could have avoided all of this if you had just stuck to the book. The book is designed to help you avoid these situations, so you’re out the time you felt like a chump. You look like a chump in front of everybody else. Plus, you spent the money for the hotel and you probably were hanging out with Rosie Palms and her five friends at the end of the night instead of naked in bed with her, potentially. Or somebody else.

By this point, I was ready to throw in the towel and call it a night, but I thought, “Fuck it, I’m going to enjoy myself.”

Which is the right attitude. So that’s a good recovery. That’s the way you should be thinking. Don’t let one chick who is rude like that ruin your night. I’d flush her number and I would never speak to her again. If you ever see her at another event and you make eye contact, smile and wave, and then just turn back to whoever you’re talking to. As far as you’re concerned, she’s dead to you. You’re never going to go over and talk to her or say hello. If she wants to come over and say hi, she can do that, but again, if you were tired of fucking her and bored, what would you do? You basically act exactly the way she acted towards you towards the end.

And my night ended up on a positive note at least. I started talking to a hot, petite woman and we shared great conversation and dances and we shared numbers and agreed to meet for a drink.

That’s the proper way to do it. Not sheepishly going through Instagram. You should be direct and decisive. If you like a girl and you think there’s chemistry, you do exactly what you did with this girl, which is you ask her out. You get her number on the spot. You don’t sheepishly, like a coward, send her a message on Instagram.

So all’s well that ends well after one of the worst dates I’ve ever had.

I would love to get your thoughts and perspective on the situation.

Which obviously you got a little slight roasting there, but you know, I got to break your balls because you did the opposite of what the book teaches and you got burned predictably.

I’m assuming that I should never contact her again due to the way she acted?

Absolutely! Even if she does contact you, treat it like 7 Principles To Get An Ex Back. If she texts you, send two or three replies and say, “Hey, I got to run. Talk to you later.” If she calls you, which I doubt she will in this case, but if she does, talk for two or three minutes, say, “Hey, it’s nice hearing from you, but I gotta run. Talk to you later.” The only way you’ll ever go out on a date or ask her out is if she brings it up first. Even if she suggests going to another salsa party together, just say, “No, I don’t want to do that. I’d like to take you out on a date. I don’t want to do something public and do like a salsa thing.”

And whilst I don’t expect to hear from her again, what should I do if she reaches out? Make a date or just politely decline?

Bob

Well again, even just like I said, if she reaches out, unless she brings up getting together, you’re going to talk for a couple of minutes and then just say, “Hey, I got to run. Talk to you later.” If she texts you two or three texts replies and then just say, “Hey, I got to run. Talk to you later!” So unless she says, “Hey, we should get together, you and I, for a drink sometime,” then you can make a date. Other than that, I put a fork in this one. It looks done. It looks like she’s going to do everything she can to avoid you. If you normally see her at other salsa events, she’ll probably just avoid you outright and not go places where she thinks you’re going to be. In the meantime, you don’t take girls on dates from salsa class to other salsa classes. Again, the book says no group dates for a reason, but some people like to do things the hard way.

So, if you’ve got a question or a challenge and you’d like to get my help, go to UnderstandingRelationships.com, click the Products tab at the top of your screen on any page, and book a coaching session with yours truly.

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